Error on 2014 NFHS test

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Really?

Our state is not a full member of the National Federation, which means they do not pay the insurance dues for the officials for the state. Our state produces our own test which is much shorter and multiple choice. It has been that way for probably 5 or 6 years now. Our test is usually much more common sense and asks about how you apply the rules, not just trying to test your rulebook language knowledge or complete understanding for one word in a question.

Peace

[Reffing Rev.]

en?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our state is not a full member of the National Federation, which means they do not pay the insurance dues for the officials for the state. Our state produces our own test which is much shorter and multiple choice. It has been that way for probably 5 or 6 years now. Our test is usually much more common sense and asks about how you apply the rules, not just trying to test your rulebook language knowledge or complete understanding for one word in a question.

Peace

I used to live in the land of Lincoln and may move back there some day...I'm curious did your ihsa registration costs go down? How much more do you pay for liability?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

en?

I used to live in the land of Lincoln and may move back there some day...I'm curious did your ihsa registration costs go down? How much more do you pay for liability?

Illinois decided they were going not going to honor bordering state reciprocity at the same time. That's when I decided to stop working the occasional basketball game in Illinois.

[WestCoaster]

So this rule only pertains to a running play such as that following an interception, possession of a kick etc. It seems impossible then to have a run play from scrimmage where this rule applies, since the fumble occurs in the end zone which by definition is a loose ball play.

Thank you all for the clarification. It's important to me that I understand this rule clearly. I've actually had this play in a youth game and enforced the horse collar penalty (incorrectly) from the goal line. I will get it right next time.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

So this rule only pertains to a running play such as that following an interception, possession of a kick etc. It seems impossible then to have a run play from scrimmage where this rule applies, since the fumble occurs in the end zone which by definition is a loose ball play.

Thank you all for the clarification. It's important to me that I understand this rule clearly. I've actually had this play in a youth game and enforced the horse collar penalty (incorrectly) from the goal line. I will get it right next time.

Kudos for seeking help with rule understanding. This rule is a great example of how important definitions are. You can get into trouble using traditional definitions of terms and make this play a running play because no pass was thrown. You are correct that 10-4-7 can only apply after a change of possession. Otherwise it would have to be a loose ball play.

The phrase I used earlier really helped me eventually understand this. A down can consist of multiple running plays, but only 1 loose ball play and it always starts with the snap.

[ump33]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

So this rule only pertains to a running play such as that following an interception, possession of a kick etc. It seems impossible then to have a run play from scrimmage where this rule applies, since the fumble occurs in the end zone which by definition is a loose ball play.

You are correct, 10-4-7 was tweaked in 2008 to help identify / understand the "running play" happens after a COP. The 2008 HFHS Rules Power Point Play Pics have B intercepting on his 6 yd line and running into his own EZ where he is tackled by the Face Mask. The Enforcement Spot is the GL.

[JKinATL29]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

So this rule only pertains to a running play such as that following an interception, possession of a kick etc. It seems impossible then to have a run play from scrimmage where this rule applies, since the fumble occurs in the end zone which by definition is a loose ball play.

That's not totally true. In the original play, the fumble is what makes it a loose ball play. If the runner were tackled in the end zone by the facemask without a fumble, then it's a running play by definition. That's when you would enforce the penalty from the goal line.

[westneat]

Originally Posted by JKinATL29

That's not totally true. In the original play, the fumble is what makes it a loose ball play. If the runner were tackled in the end zone by the facemask without a fumble, then it's a running play by definition. That's when you would enforce the penalty from the goal line.

That's a different rule you are using there. You are using 10-5-2, not 10-4-7

[JKinATL29]

Originally Posted by westneat

That's a different rule you are using there. You are using 10-5-2, not 10-4-7

Fair enough. That's what I get for trying to answer without the rule book in front of me.

[tomes1978]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

So this rule only pertains to a running play such as that following an interception, possession of a kick etc. It seems impossible then to have a run play from scrimmage where this rule applies, since the fumble occurs in the end zone which by definition is a loose ball play.

Thank you all for the clarification. It's important to me that I understand this rule clearly. I've actually had this play in a youth game and enforced the horse collar penalty (incorrectly) from the goal line. I will get it right next time.

The key here is that the fumble occurred behind the LOS.
Rule 10-3 Art 1, c:
A loose-ball play is the action during:
c . A backward pass (including the snap), illegal kick or fumble made by A from in or behind the neutral zone and prior to change of team possession.

note: The runs which precedes such legal or illegal kick, legal forward pass, backward pass or fumble is (are) considered part of the action during a loose ball play.

I used an old rule book so not sure if my rule number is correct.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

en?

I used to live in the land of Lincoln and may move back there some day...I'm curious did your ihsa registration costs go down? How much more do you pay for liability?

No, it did not go up. It stayed about the same if I recall for renewals. It would have gone up if they had stayed with the NF Insurance from my understanding.

I would have to look up what is the current cost for all of this, but I know it would have been more if they stayed with the NF and one of the main reasons they opted out of the NF program. As a result, we do not get rulebooks and personal memberships from the NF. And that is alright with me.

Peace

[chapmaja]

I am not a football official, but to me this seems like another example of the wording of the NFHS rulebooks being confusing as heck.

We had a softball debate at a clinic a couple years ago. I don't recall the exact situation, but it involved a batter being hit with a batted ball and what the status of the ball and play was. The rules covering the batter actually contradict themselves, but the deciding factor is the definition of a foul ball.

If in doubt, go with the definition in the NFHS book.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I am not a football official, but to me this seems like another example of the wording of the NFHS rulebooks being confusing as heck.

It's not that confusing once you realize that the definitions are important and that they have a specific meaning. Like in any other sport, the rule pertaining to definitions is vitally important to understand in understanding the rest of the book.