Question on NFHS Formations

[29Rocket]

I am fairly new to coaching (3rd year) and this is my first year as a head coach (for a 3rd & 4th grade team).

I am a bit confused about illegal formation vs ineligible down field in respect to NHFS rules. As I understand it, there is no ineligible receiver down field penalty in NHFS, correct?

If so, would a formation such as

    XYTGCGT
        1  
    4   3   2

be legal? The TE and WR on the LOS next to each other, with the QB(1), FB(3) and two wing backs(2 & 4) in the backfield.

We only run out of this formation and have never been called on it, but it
would be illegal in the NFL since the TE(Y) is covered by the WR(X) and the RT is uncovered.

Under NHFS, can I also pass to X or Y out of this formation?

Our league does not enforce numbers, any number can play any position. We had a QB at number 77 2 years ago


Thanks

[JRutledge]

The only eligible receivers by position are the X and the T on the line and everyone in the back field and they are only eligible if they have an eligible number.

I cannot speak specifically for NFL rules, but the rule on this are basically the same. I know NFL players can report to be eligible on the end of the line, but not sure how that is done procedurally.

Peace

[Welpe]

Your understanding that there is no ineligible downfield penalty is incorrect.

For your purposes, all of your backs and the ends on the line of scrimmage are eligible. There is no foul in NFHS for having an ineligible player uncovered.

Since your league does not use the numbering rules, are they requiring any kind of special identification for the eligible players?

   XYTGCGT
       1 
     4 3 2

That formation is legal to run or pass out of. The Y player just cannot go down field on a pass play where the pass crosses the line of scrimmage.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The only eligible receivers by position are the X and the T on the line and everyone in the back field and they are only eligible if they have an eligible number.

I cannot speak specifically for NFL rules, but the rule on this are basically the same. I know NFL players can report to be eligible on the end of the line, but not sure how that is done procedurally.

Peace

In general, it is illegal to cover an eligible (by number) receiver in the NFL.

[ajmc]

Coach, you might seriously consider that 3rd and 4th grade football players are a long way away from playing NFL, or NCAA football, and trying to master multiple rules codes can cause a lot of unnecessary confusion. Focusing ENTIRELY on NFHS Rules (presuming that's the rule code your teams play under) will simplify your job and enhance your ability to TEACH THE GAME to these beginning players.

As players and coaches mature and evolve into grasping the skills necessary and strategies of the game, they can deal with the advanced applications of those rules specifically designed for more mature and more talented players at higher levels of the Game.

There are different rule codes for different levels of the Game, for good reasons.

[Robert Goodman]

He might've gone from AC under NFL rules to HC under Fed.

Where I coached in 2007, the HC had just come from coaching adults to coaching kids, and he did mix up the rules sometimes. But it's not like he was trying to confuse himself!

[bwburke94]

In the NFL, players with eligible numbers can report as ineligible, or vice versa, but must sit out a play to switch between being eligible and ineligible. If a player with an ineligible number lines up in an ordinarily eligible position but does not report, they remain ineligible.

[29Rocket]

I should have been more clear. I added the bit about the NFL because I wanted to be sure I understood the difference between the two. Not for the kids (I won't tell them that), but for the opposing coaches and parents. I am pretty sure someone will claim this is illegal and it is easier to explain to them if I can point out the differences.

[HLin NC]

We have a couple of high schools in our area that run an overloaded formation with the TE covered regularly. They've never even made a pretense they were going to throw out of it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by 29Rocket

I should have been more clear. I added the bit about the NFL because I wanted to be sure I understood the difference between the two. Not for the kids (I won't tell them that), but for the opposing coaches and parents. I am pretty sure someone will claim this is illegal and it is easier to explain to them if I can point out the differences.

But since your league doesn't use receiver numbering rules (few youth leagues do), what basis could they have for their claim? Would they say, "That player of yours is known to us as an end, so playing him in the interior is illegal"? I understand that in some leagues there's an unenforced understanding between coaches not to use tackle-eligible plays; could that be the case in yours?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by 29Rocket

As I understand it, there is no ineligible receiver down field penalty in NHFS, correct?

No, that is incorrect.

If an ineligible receiver is downfield on a forward pass that cross the LOS, then that's a penalty.

There is no penalty unless a forward pass is thrown. So if you're using the formation on running plays only, you're not going to get a penalty.

[Texas Aggie]

If an ineligible receiver is downfield on a forward pass that cross the LOS, then that's a penalty.

Under NCAA rules, this applies only when the ineligible by number or position is more than 3 yards beyond the LOS, and in practice doesn't apply to things like overthrown screen passes.

Neither does it apply on broken plays when a run play becomes a pass and the idiot line judge (on a 4 man crew) is too far downfield to judge whether the ineligibles were indeed downfield. [Actually, this isn't true; it was a play I missed early in my career and I figured I'd try to keep justifying it until they wrote it into the rules!!]