Carolina vs New England last play

[hbk314]

The contact starts pretty close to where the ball was picked off, and he was trying to play the ball when the defender drove him back through the end zone. The more I watch that, the more I wonder what they were thinking picking the flag up.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by hbk314

The contact starts pretty close to where the ball was picked off, and he was trying to play the ball when the defender drove him back through the end zone. The more I watch that, the more I wonder what they were thinking picking the flag up.

Thanks for the video. Look at the defender who caught the ball and where he is when Gronk is first contacted by the other defender. He is already closer to the ball than Gronk, and he is headed toward the ball, while Gronk is heading away. There's no chance for the receiver to catch this ball at all.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Thanks for the video. Look at the defender who caught the ball and where he is when Gronk is first contacted by the other defender. He is already closer to the ball than Gronk, and he is headed toward the ball, while Gronk is heading away. There's no chance for the receiver to catch this ball at all.

I think you can make the case he was slowing to come back to the ball, but could not due to the contact. Seriously, if the penalty was called, I bet most who now disagree would be agreeing with the call. I think you can make the case either way. This is not cut and dry. Not no chance. You could say that every ball that is not caught is technically "uncatchable" there is not cut and dry response here.

I don't think anyone can say that there was "No Chance" Gronkowski could have caught the ball...

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by bcl1127

I think you can make the case he was slowing to come back to the ball, but could not due to the contact. Seriously, if the penalty was called, I bet most who now disagree would be agreeing with the call. I think you can make the case either way. This is not cut and dry. Not no chance. You could say that every ball that is not caught is technically "uncatchable" there is not cut and dry response here.

I don't think anyone can say that there was "No Chance" Gronkowski could have caught the ball...

I agree. He was clearly making an attempt at the ball when the defender dragged him through the end zone.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I agree. He was clearly making an attempt at the ball when the defender dragged him through the end zone.

I don't think it was that clear. That was a horrible pass (according to the guy who threw it) and Gronk was not getting to it.

Again, no way he turns on a dime and gets back to go through the guy who caught it; even without the defender draped all over him. His momentum was taking him in the opposite direction. He's not a point guard.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't think it was that clear. That was a horrible pass (according to the guy who threw it) and Gronk was not getting to it.

Again, no way he turns on a dime and gets back to go through the guy who caught it; even without the defender draped all over him.

My point is it is not that clear. Nothing about the play is cut and dry. I have seen flags in the NFL on poorly thrown balls. I just think this is not as cut and dry as is being portrayed by some. It will be interested to see what the league says tonight.

[zm1283]

I have more of a problem with them picking the flag up than with the fact that DPI wasn't ultimately called. You could argue that it wasn't catchable, although I don't think that was infinitely clear, especially in real time. I just don't like how flags are picked up on judgment calls in football and it seems pretty unique to that sport. To top it off they pick the flag up and then don't explain why it isn't DPI when the BJ emphatically threw his flag indicating such.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bcl1127

My point is it is not that clear. Nothing about the play is cut and dry. I have seen flags in the NFL on poorly thrown balls. I just think this is not as cut and dry as is being portrayed by some. It will be interested to see what the league says tonight.

So am I, but the folks at ESPN have already invested quite a bit of time denigrating the call. I don't think the NFL announcement will make a difference either way.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Thanks for the video. Look at the defender who caught the ball and where he is when Gronk is first contacted by the other defender. He is already closer to the ball than Gronk, and he is headed toward the ball, while Gronk is heading away. There's no chance for the receiver to catch this ball at all.

Look at how Gronk started to turn back right before Kuechly started driving him. Maybe he screens the DB off, maybe he doesn't. This isn't some run of the mill TE, it's a 6'7" freak who's made some amazing catches before. I don't know if he could beat the DB to the ball, but no way I could say definitively that he couldn't. He didn't even get the chance. The only reason he's heading away is that one of the best LB's in the game is driving him back with all his force. Maybe Gronk might not have made it back, but was there a 20% chance? 10% chance? It strikes me as hyperbole to say 0%. And if Gronk was denied a legitimate chance at the ball by illegal contact, it's gotta be DPI in my opinion.

I can understand but not agree with others saying its a good no call, but there's nothing at all clear cut about this. Many here see it one way, others another. On the expert front, we've got Jerry Austin saying good no call, Mike Periera split, and Jim Daopoulos saying DPI.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Look at how Gronk started to turn back right before Kuechly started driving him. Maybe he screens the DB off, maybe he doesn't. This isn't some run of the mill TE, it's a 6'7" freak who's made some amazing catches before. I don't know if he could beat the DB to the ball, but no way I could say definitively that he couldn't. He didn't even get the chance. The only reason he's heading away is that one of the best LB's in the game is driving him back with all his force. Maybe Gronk might not have made it back, but was there a 20% chance? 10% chance? It strikes me as hyperbole to say 0%. And if Gronk was denied a legitimate chance at the ball by illegal contact, it's gotta be DPI in my opinion.

What's legitimate? 60%? 30? 5?

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Adam

What's legitimate? 60%? 30? 5?

I dunno...what do you think? I think "uncatchable" means beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no play. I'd certainly say a 10% chance of catching is a reasonable albeit unlikely chance. I think we have to give the player every reasonable benefit of the doubt...it's catchable unless there's enough evidence to say it isn't. I respect that many judge it isnt in this case but I wholeheartedly disagree.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I dunno...what do you think? I think "uncatchable" means beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no play. I'd certainly say a 10% chance of catching is a reasonable albeit unlikely chance. I think we have to give the player every reasonable benefit of the doubt...it's catchable unless there's enough evidence to say it isn't. I respect that many judge it isnt in this case but I wholeheartedly disagree.

What Gerry seems to have stated was that if the pass is intercepted or knocked down before it gets to the player who was interfered with, then by definition it's "uncatchable." That's how I interpreted what he said on espin.

If that ball continues to the ground, the DPI probably stands, regardless of where it lands.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

What Gerry seems to have stated was that if the pass is intercepted or knocked down before it gets to the player who was interfered with, then by definition it's "uncatchable." That's how I interpreted what he said on espin.

If that ball continues to the ground, the DPI probably stands, regardless of where it lands.

I agree 100%. It is the defender that intercepted this ball that makes the ball uncatchable. If he's not there - this is 100% DPI (and if he's not there, the flagging official has nothing to ask for help about anyway).

[JasonTX]

This pass gets intercepted even if Gronk was not being covered. His momentum is taking him out of the end zone if it wasn't for the contact.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I dunno...what do you think? I think "uncatchable" means beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no play. I'd certainly say a 10% chance of catching is a reasonable albeit unlikely chance. I think we have to give the player every reasonable benefit of the doubt...it's catchable unless there's enough evidence to say it isn't. I respect that many judge it isnt in this case but I wholeheartedly disagree.

Uncatchable means uncatchable. 0%. Like in the play we're discussing.