Helping the runner

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by paxsonref

I generally agree with the responses so far, but when a coach sees this and asks you why its not a penalty, it gets tougher to respond, since the rule book wording and case play is pretty clear.... how much would the player have to do in order for you to make this call?

This is not the type of play the rule is trying to prevent. It has more to do with holding up a player about to go down or directly pulling a player forward.

[bigjohn]

ASSISTING RUNNER
9.1 SITUATION: With fourth and goal from B’s 1-yard line, runner A1 is pushed
at the line of scrimmage from behind by A2 in an effort by A2 to get him into the
end zone. RULING: A2 has fouled by helping the runner. The foul carries a 5-yard
penalty. Therefore it will be fourth and goal from B’s 6-yard line if the penalty is
accepted

[CT1]

No in both plays.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

ASSISTING RUNNER
9.1 SITUATION: With fourth and goal from B’s 1-yard line, runner A1 is pushed
at the line of scrimmage from behind by A2 in an effort by A2 to get him into the
end zone. RULING: A2 has fouled by helping the runner. The foul carries a 5-yard
penalty. Therefore it will be fourth and goal from B’s 6-yard line if the penalty is
accepted

And naturally, you have omitted the interpretation handed down by your state association (for years) that reads, "pushing the pile is not a foul."

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

This is not the type of play the rule is trying to prevent. It has more to do with holding up a player about to go down or directly pulling a player forward.

Or the Bush Push?

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Or the Bush Push?

NCAA rule changed last year removing a push as an act that constitutes assisting the runner. If this happened this year there is no question it is NOT a foul.

[Welpe]

I STILL think that at the time, the Bush Push should have been called. Not many (other than ND fans) agree with me.

Now it is a moot point and I'm thankful for that.

[bigjohn]

2010 Point of Emphasis!

Pretty sure in these clips you can see
ASSISTING THE RUNNER
The NFHS Football Rules Committee develops competitive rules that promote fair play
and attempt to minimize risks to student-athletes. Fundamental to this process is the constant evaluation of the rules and how they impact the balance between offense and defense.
NFHS Rule 9-1 states: “An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist
his forward progress.” These acts, whether intentional or not, create an inequity between
the offensive and defensive teams and must be penalized without regard to down or field
position.
Pushing the pile forward has become more prominent at the high school level. This act
alone does not necessarily constitute a violation of Rule 9-1 unless an offensive player is in
direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward. Pulling or
lifting a runner to assist his forward progress has no place in high school football. The sole
reason these acts occur is to give the offensive team an advantage. Football officials are
expected to penalize such actions so the balance can be maintained.

[JRutledge]

All of that sounds great, but not once did I read or see an example that this POE applied to these plays shown in the OP.

And once again, you never have to make this call and if you did you would not be working very long. And you notice they did not go back to this POE after that year? I doubt much changed even in that year.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All of that sounds great, but not once did I read or see an example that this POE applied to these plays shown in the OP.

And once again, you never have to make this call and if you did you would not be working very long. And you notice they did not go back to this POE after that year? I doubt much changed even in that year.

Peace

They probably dropped the POE for two reasons.

1. Some refs actually started making this call, and the coaches on the rule committee didn't like it.
2. The rest of the coaches saw the POE and spent all year yelling for that call.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

2010 Point of Emphasis!

Pretty sure in these clips you can see
ASSISTING THE RUNNER
The NFHS Football Rules Committee develops competitive rules that promote fair play
and attempt to minimize risks to student-athletes. Fundamental to this process is the constant evaluation of the rules and how they impact the balance between offense and defense.
NFHS Rule 9-1 states: “An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist
his forward progress.” These acts, whether intentional or not, create an inequity between
the offensive and defensive teams and must be penalized without regard to down or field
position.
Pushing the pile forward has become more prominent at the high school level. This act
alone does not necessarily constitute a violation of Rule 9-1 unless an offensive player is in
direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward. Pulling or
lifting a runner to assist his forward progress has no place in high school football. The sole
reason these acts occur is to give the offensive team an advantage. Football officials are
expected to penalize such actions so the balance can be maintained.

Highlighted the pertinent interpretation in red...



"Pushing the pile is not a foul"

The fact that you as a coach won't admit the fact that Ohio has (and has for a long, long time) interpreted it this way is disheartening on your part.

[bigjohn]

Amanda Clearcreek and Ron Hinton would not agree with you at all.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I STILL think that at the time, the Bush Push should have been called. Not many (other than ND fans) agree with me.

I agree it should have been called, and I'm a Pac-12 guy (and _not_ a UCLA fan ).

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

NCAA rule changed last year removing a push as an act that constitutes assisting the runner. If this happened this year there is no question it is NOT a foul.

"Last year" would be 2012, and I assure you the word "push" still appears in the 2012 NCAA 9-3-2(b). Did you mean 2013?

[HLin NC]

Amanda Clearcreek and Ron Hinton would not agree with you at all.

"Nevah heard of 'em"- props to the QCB on WFNZ