The Official Forum - End of Wisconsin

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- - End of Wisconsin - Arizona State game (https://forum.officiating.com/football/96111-end-wisconsin-arizona-state-game.html)

JRutledge

Mon Sep 16, 2013 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 905172)

I'm happy to see that the conference is stating what everyone already knew instead of burying its head in the sand.

I'd be interested to know what exactly the sanctions include, because the conference's statement doesn't really reflect the magnitude of the officials' errors.

Because they probably are going to officiate next week and the rest of the season unless another incident. And something tells me they will be back next year too. And in the situation where I said a BIG crew was suspended, the media never covered the specific incident in any capacity until the officials were suspended. Even then it was not even a big deal because the media has no idea what officials are scrutinized for but when it is a well known incident near the end of the game.

The statement sounds mostly for PR purposes to make people like you feel better. Nothing more and nothing less.

The incident will be used for training and to help communication, but nothing more will be done.

For the record officials in every conference are evaluated on every play and down graded all the time for stuff you never even know took place or for a coverage that seemed routine. But as a fanboy you probably did not know that fact.

Peace

Adam	Mon Sep 16, 2013 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 905172)

It might be that they disagree with you on the magnitude.

It might be they don't think the public needs to know, because publicizing sancctions would undermine the credibility of this crew in future games.

Based on your initial post, which was really the spark of disagreement here, I didn't think you'd be happy unless they were deported to North Korea.

qcumpire

Mon Sep 16, 2013 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 905159)

Wow. I'm embarrassed. Embarrassed that the officials on this site seem to be 100% in defense of the actions by this crew. Fanboy or not, the OP is correct. Stupidly executed play by the QB no doubt - but surely we're not forgiving the crew on this play simply because the player's form was not perfect. Good grief, people.

The worst part, to me, was the umpire standing up having a conversation with a defensive lineman while precious seconds fade away. There is no question the crew needs to be more aware of the clock than this crew was.

So, that said, has anyone heard if there was any disciplinary action taken?

(PS - most definitely NOT the worst I've ever seen. Oregon vs OU had 2 or 3 plays alone that top this. Both 5th down plays. Nebr-Mich failed Stanforesque ending ... all of these were far worse.)

My thoughts exactly. Not only were they reprimanded by their own conference supervisor, but the Big 10 supervisor of officials is on record saying they did not handle the situation correctly.

Many times in a inter-conference game like this one, the on-officials come from the visiting team's conference, while the replay official comes from the home team's conference.

I know that wasn't the case here and that the on-field officials were from the Pac 12. My question is, what conference was the replay official from? If he is from the Big 10, will he receive any sanctions from that conference?

hbk314

Mon Sep 16, 2013 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 905174)

Obviously I was over the top in my initial post, but the officials did decide the game through their errors and made no attempt to correct them.

What's done is done. Hopefully this inexcusable situation doesn't happen again. I'd just like to see some of you be a little more objective looking at the situation. MD Longhorn was exactly right.

And for the record, I'm normally defensive of officials, especially in baseball with all of the "analysts" commenting on umpires, but as someone who watched this situation happen live and watched the officials abandon their posts at the end of the game, the officials deserve every bit of criticism they received.

JRutledge

Mon Sep 16, 2013 01:56pm

Just because people do not agree with you does not make it less objective. Once again the team created the situation by their actions. Hand the ball to the officials and no ASU player can jump on the ball or assume it was a fumble. I guarantee you teams will coach this part of the game better and not have their player set the ball down on the ground, waiting for the ball to be spotted by the officials.

Peace

JRutledge

Mon Sep 16, 2013 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qcumpire (Post 905180)

I know that wasn't the case here and that the on-field officials were from the Pac 12. My question is, what conference was the replay official from? If he is from the Big 10, will he receive any sanctions from that conference?

This is not a replay situation. The clock was not stopped and should not have been stopped unless some penalty or other action (which I am still trying to figure out what action could have been taken) was taken.

Peace

MD Longhorn

Mon Sep 16, 2013 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 905181)

Obviously I was over the top in my initial post, but the officials did decide the game through their errors and made no attempt to correct them.

If you've spend more than one second on this site, you would know that one of the major pet peeves of officials (of all sports, btw) is this notion that an error on one play, even a big one, decides the game every single time it happens at the end of the game. The notion is nonsense. EVERY play could decide the game. The game is the confluence of all the plays (and mistakes, outstanding plays, bad and good calls) put together.

Speaking as if the notion carries any weight at all is going to get your POV dismissed quickly and decisively, even if (as in this case) you had a valid point otherwise.

MD Longhorn

Mon Sep 16, 2013 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qcumpire (Post 905180)

My question is, what conference was the replay official from? If he is from the Big 10, will he receive any sanctions from that conference?

I dismissed this notion the first time someone brought it up, but now I have to ask. What in the world could you possibly fault the replay official for? The replay official had no input whatsoever on this play.

hbk314

Mon Sep 16, 2013 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905182)

While that would have helped, it's a total cop out to use that to attempt to defend the officials lack of officiating.

parepat

Mon Sep 16, 2013 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 905032)

I have discussed it rationally. The call on the field was correctly that of the play ending on a kneeldown. The QB knelt down with the ball. His knee clearly touched the ground. That's the way the officials called it on the field.

I understand where the confusion comes from, but there's a line between some confusion and allowing the defense to run off the remainder of the clock by laying on top of a ball that should be being spotted for play.

It doesn't take seven seconds to tell a player to get the hell off the ball so I can spot it. It should have resulted in a penalty for delay of game because the way it played out rewarded the defense for holding the ball hostage.

Centering the ball makes sense given that they don't have the best kicker in the world. They had plenty of time to do it. They were lined up to spike the ball to stop the clock with more than 10 seconds to go. The only reason it "failed" is because the officials failed in their duties.

To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

Raymond

Mon Sep 16, 2013 02:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 904988)

The play was blown dead with 15 seconds left on the clock. 10 seconds later the defender was finally letting go of the ball. That's way too long to be accepted as mere "confusion."

The very least they should have done would have been to review the play and spot the ball properly with the correct amount of time on the clock.

Wisconsin being denied a game-winning field goal opportunity, whether it from the 15 or the 10 after a DOG penalty, is 100% on the officials, and there's nothing that can be said to change that.

I'm confused as to what question you are really asking.

MD Longhorn

Mon Sep 16, 2013 02:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 905189)

Not (1) - he clearly (in one angle at least, and that angle most closely mirrors R's angle) took a knee. But definitely (2) and (3), and I agree with you that player stupidity doesn't make it OK that the officials booted this one.

JRutledge

Mon Sep 16, 2013 03:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 905188)

While that would have helped, it's a total cop out to use that to attempt to defend the officials lack of officiating.

If you have been paying attention, I said everyone had a role. But it was all started by the team that ran a stupid play that they did not need to run and their QB did something no one I have ever seen do such a thing. And once again, I am a BIG fan and a Wisconsin supporter. I think the play was silly and if anyone they need to blame is what they told their QB to do. Honestly the officials are last on the list of blame.

Peace

Raymond

Mon Sep 16, 2013 03:12pm

I hear a whistle with 0:14 on the clock but there is no official near the ball. Still would have taken time for the appropriate official to come mark the spot and then get back into position.

The officials didn't handle the situation correctly but it's not like they did something egregious. I'm still trying to figure out what the OP is expecting someone here to say in response to his statements.

Adam	Mon Sep 16, 2013 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 905189)

No one here offered any apologetics for the officials. That's ridiculous, frankly. All that was offered was a sort of mitigation from the initial claim that these guys should be fired. IOW, "yeah they screwed up, but get a grip."

I'd be curious to find out what the prescribed remedy would have been here. The R should have been a bit more adamant about the situation. I don't see any possibility of flagging the defense here, and I doubt that's the prescription. In order to justify that, the U would have needed to ask for the ball, right? I could be wrong on this, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 905196)

No one said it made it ok. Only that it explains it. And that it was avoidable for the players. IOW, don't do something weird that might confuse the refs, even at that level.
Oh, and we objected to the inital (and repeated) claims that they should never work again.

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