Duplicate Number Question

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by parepat

So.... in this situation having the QB and Punter wear the same number and then have said QB line up as a punter and run the play seems like a deceptive move to me. I have a foul. Do you?

Unless I can be ABSOLUTELY sure that the QB #16 and Punter #16 are not the same person, no, I do not have a foul.

In high school I played against a team whose quarterback was also their punter. Why can't a player, if appropriately skilled, do both?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Unless I can be ABSOLUTELY sure that the QB #16 and Punter #16 are not the same person, no, I do not have a foul.

In high school I played against a team whose quarterback was also their punter. Why can't a player, if appropriately skilled, do both?

Danny White did this in the pros.

I'm really surprised this has gotten as much play as it has. I don't even see most players' faces, much less memorize them and compare. I can see possibly catching this if it happened to be a captain - we see their faces early, and interact with them throughout the game. But even in an NCAA game, I don't see this getting noticed by the on-field officials.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Unless I can be ABSOLUTELY sure that the QB #16 and Punter #16 are not the same person, no, I do not have a foul.

In high school I played against a team whose quarterback was also their punter. Why can't a player, if appropriately skilled, do both?

The point is, if your regular punter is 18, and your backup qb is 18, you can easily deceive the defense by sending in your backup qb to line up as your regular punter.
The defense is going to assume it's a punt and defend accordingly.

OTOH, at the college level, there shouldn't be any surprises after about week 2.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Adam

The point is, if your regular punter is 18, and your backup qb is 18, you can easily deceive the defense by sending in your backup qb to line up as your regular punter.
The defense is going to assume it's a punt and defend accordingly.

OTOH, at the college level, there shouldn't be any surprises after about week 2.

Which is pretty much what happened in this situation.

[MD Longhorn]

How did the QB "sneak" onto the field if he was already on the field? Did he leave with the group, but then turn around and come back?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

How did the QB "sneak" onto the field if he was already on the field? Did he leave with the group, but then turn around and come back?

Pretty easy if he is the 2nd string QB and comes on with the punt team.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

Pretty easy if he is the 2nd string QB and comes on with the punt team.

Two things... 1 - the OP said it was the starter.

2 - QB and Punter are two different positions ... the rule clearly says you can't have two guys at the same position with the same number during a game. If this 2nd guy actually punted ... THEN you have a broken rule.

Perhaps the rule should be written to also say that two players with the same number cannot take snaps from center during the game. But currently, it does not state this.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by parepat

Did the QB run play from punt formation or shift to a conventional formation? Doesn't really matter to me. I believe it is a foul either way, but trying to get the facts straight.

The play was run from the punt formation.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Two things... 1 - the OP said it was the starter.

2 - QB and Punter are two different positions ... the rule clearly says you can't have two guys at the same position with the same number during a game. If this 2nd guy actually punted ... THEN you have a broken rule.

Perhaps the rule should be written to also say that two players with the same number cannot take snaps from center during the game. But currently, it does not state this.

1 - Right it was the starter. In this situation there was no substitution. Normally #18 - QB leaves and #18 - P comes on the field for 4th down punts but in this play #18 - QB stays on the field.

2 - Are they though under the rules? The rule has teeth in that the penalty is fairly severe, but it has no structure in that it's basically impossible to enforce since the rules don't define what positions are.

I also agree that it's basically unenforceable by the crew during the game due to the difficulty of confirming the separate identities particularly across long periods of time.

In the end I think it's a good idea turned into a badly written rule. I think this should be a violation but it's not entirely clear whether it is or not and even if it is, it would take an extraordinary effort by the crew to get it.