We're Not Measuring!

[Reffing Rev.]

On 1st down we've got the nose of the football tickling A's 35.

After the 3rd down the ball is 4 inches short of A's 45.
It is 4th down. I know it. LJ knows it. HL knows it. Coach demands a measurement. I declined his request for a measurement as the ball was obviously short of the line to gain, "He needs the 45." Coach calls a timeout and spends all of it begging for a measurement. I tried to tell him, 1st down was on the 35, so he needs the line. After denying the request for obvious reasons, how many of you would give in to the coach and measure because he's begging? In his words, "He's never seen a crew not measure something that close."

Later in the game, the same coach threw a fit because after an injury timeout with the clock starting on the ready, his ECO failed to start the clock. After the down, which resulted in a touchdown the BJ informed me 20 seconds of the play clock had gone by prior to the snap (He uses the Ready-Ref and received his 5 second buzz at the snap). I ran-off 20 seconds and he wouldn't even listen, "There is no way that play took 20 seconds," The play didn't but your clock operator didn't start the clock for 20 seconds before the play, wasn't enough of an explanation. 3 plays later he argued a non-call on a potential DPI, and he argued it from 10 yards on the field so I gave him a USC.

The game was 14-14 at halftime and 21-14 until 5:18 in the 4th. Coach ruined what really was a good game. Once he came unglued for the 3rd time his team gave up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Once he came unglued for the 3rd time his team gave up.

Of course they did. He gave them someone else to blame.

[Forksref]

This is why we tell our BJ to spot the ball just touching a yard line after a change of possession so we know exactly where the LTG will be. On a well-marked field, it saves unnecessary measurements. I had the same situation a few years ago and the coach said, "That's what we pay you for." We didn't measure. How a coach wants to react to that is his choice.

[Texas Aggie]

Was it grass or turf? If grass, I'd probably go ahead and measure. Field could be off; of course, so could the chains. I had a game once where the 39 and 40 yard line on one side of the field where almost touching each other! We told the V coach and said on anything close we'd measure. If you're on turf, then I'd be inclined to tell them the turf is more accurate than the chains.

Its your decision as to what's reasonable, but if its close, a possible change of possession, and/or a critical point in a varsity game, I'm going to measure. Last night we measured twice when I was 100% sure he was a yard short. Just feel like its easier to show them rather than try to explain why we didn't. Obviously, anything unreasonable we're not going to do it.

[Robert Goodman]

Ask him which chalk line he wants it measured from.

[MD Longhorn]

Varsity, on a real field, there's no way I measure ... and no way I entertain him during his time out. On a field where lines might be suspect, I will measure even in this seemingly obvious position, since the lines might not actually be 10 yards.

One person mentioned that the chains might be off. Not in my game - even a junior high game.

[jTheUmp]

Grass vs turf does make a difference here, I think.

Turf field... no crown of the field to speak of, nice, well-marked, straight lines... probably no need to measure in almost all situations.

Grass fields can have a lot of variety of playing surface... some of them will have a huge crown (I've worked on one that appeared to have nearly 3 feet of drop from the middle of the field to the sidelines). Some will have marks for every yard, some won't. Sometimes the lines won't be quite straight. In all likelyhood, my WH will signal for a measurement on a grass field if there's any possibility that it's within a foot or two of the line-to-gain.

[ajmc]

I think the easiest to remember, most consistent and safest criteria to use is: if you have ANY doubt (whatsoever) measure. If you are absolutely sure, one way or the other, there's no need to measure, and it really doesn't matter who asks for one.

[bisonlj]

You can also help avoid measurements by marking the ball well short or well beyond the line (assuming you have individual yard lines on the field). If the B32 is the LTG and as a wing you feel they were short, give your spot with the back of the ball on the B33. If you feel they got it, give your spot so the back of the ball on the B32. If it's too close then get the ball from the U, place it on the field and measure it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

You can also help avoid measurements by marking the ball well short or well beyond the line (assuming you have individual yard lines on the field). If the B32 is the LTG and as a wing you feel they were short, give your spot with the back of the ball on the B33. If you feel they got it, give your spot so the back of the ball on the B32. If it's too close then get the ball from the U, place it on the field and measure it.

I had an umpire that would do this. I truly hate it when they do. There's a huge difference between 4th and 4 inches and 4th and 2 feet, especially in a good game. We should not penalize the offense by this much just to avoid taking a measurement.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

You can also help avoid measurements by marking the ball well short or well beyond the line (assuming you have individual yard lines on the field). If the B32 is the LTG and as a wing you feel they were short, give your spot with the back of the ball on the B33. If you feel they got it, give your spot so the back of the ball on the B32. If it's too close then get the ball from the U, place it on the field and measure it.

I'm a wing, and just would never to this. Mark it properly, and if it takes a measurement then so be it. I have on OOB plays tried to mark the ball on the hash if possible. Using the lines always help, when it can be done.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Was it grass or turf? If grass, I'd probably go ahead and measure. Field could be off; of course, so could the chains. I had a game once where the 39 and 40 yard line on one side of the field where almost touching each other! We told the V coach and said on anything close we'd measure. If you're on turf, then I'd be inclined to tell them the turf is more accurate than the chains.

Its your decision as to what's reasonable, but if its close, a possible change of possession, and/or a critical point in a varsity game, I'm going to measure. Last night we measured twice when I was 100% sure he was a yard short. Just feel like its easier to show them rather than try to explain why we didn't. Obviously, anything unreasonable we're not going to do it.

The field *could* be off.

That doesn't matter to me -- if we spot it on exactly the 35 for 1st and 10, it has to reach the 45 *on that field* for a first down. Matter of fact, I'll argue that this is a reason to *never* measure in this situation -- otherwise, how can we ever use the field markings? If the ball reaches the 45, we're not measuring if it's an inch beyond -- it's a first down and I'm moving the chains. Are some of you saying you'd measure *that* one too?

Hell, we use the field to measure the chains -- how do I *know* for a fact that the chains are *exactly* 10 yards apart?

By the way, I've never had a coach continue to argue when we've said, "We started on exactly the 35 -- you need the 45 for a first down." Coaches get that, in my experience.

I will bring the chains out (technically, the line judge (not me) makes that decision) when I know we haven't reached the LTG, though -- if the ball's in the side zone and the spot is crucial, I'll use the chains to move the football. We've been through 4 full weeks of varsity, JV, and freshman, and we've had the chains out exactly twice. I'm not allergic to bringing them out, but I'm only bringing them out when I feel it's needed.

(Funny how some chain crews we work with notice how many series start on a 5-yard line and how virtually all of them start on a 1-yard line. That's not accidental, of course.)

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Rich

The field *could* be off.

That doesn't matter to me -- if we spot it on exactly the 35 for 1st and 10, it has to reach the 45 *on that field* for a first down. Matter of fact, I'll argue that this is a reason to *never* measure in this situation -- otherwise, how can we ever use the field markings?

I agree. What if the goal line is crooked? Would you award a score on the basis of the ball's being dead where the end zone should have been marked?

I would make an exception for crooked goal posts, though. If an upright is bent and the ball is kicked beyond its vertical extent, I'm not projecting that angled line into space to judge whether a FG try succeeded. But that's only because it's a projection; if the ball passed inside or outside the physical post itself, that still counts.

[ajmc]

Life is a lot easier and games go a lot smoother when you believe, and accept, all lines are perfectly straight, and are exactly 5 and/or 10 yards apart.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Life is a lot easier and games go a lot smoother when you believe, and accept, all lines are perfectly straight, and are exactly 5 and/or 10 yards apart.

Fair for one, fair for all.