Job Of Ump & Ref

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by stevegarbs

It is incumbent upon the R and U to hold their count signal long enough for the wings to pick up that A indeed has 11 players on the field.

Not on a good crew. HL and LJ should be able to count 7 regardless of what R and U have. Look at the center, count how many are on the line on your side of the center and signal that to your partner. If the total is 6 (plus the center making 7), you're good. if it's too many, you're still good. Light? You should BOTH have a flag.

I've worked on crews that rely on R's count and then counting the backfield --- they miss far too many of these, and also are not really ready when the play starts more often than not.

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Not on a good crew. HL and LJ should be able to count 7 regardless of what R and U have. Look at the center, count how many are on the line on your side of the center and signal that to your partner. If the total is 6 (plus the center making 7), you're good. if it's too many, you're still good. Light? You should BOTH have a flag.

I've worked on crews that rely on R's count and then counting the backfield --- they miss far too many of these, and also are not really ready when the play starts more often than not.

I have subbed on crews that counted the backs and it was a pain. Sometimes I would think the wideout on the far side was off the line, I threw my flag and after the play the other wing said he had him on.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

I have subbed on crews that counted the backs and it was a pain. Sometimes I would think the wideout on the far side was off the line, I threw my flag and after the play the other wing said he had him on.

This is where good cross field communication comes into play. The two wings should have signals that let the other know is the player across is on or off the line. That way these issues do not arise. We were taught and still use the "punch back" if the wideout is off the line, if there are two off on my side, I am punching with two fingers extended to let my partner know.

As for the original post, no way a U or R should be making this call, they have no angle to see if someone is on the line, off the line, or in that no mans land. This is the wings responsibility.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bcl1127

This is where good cross field communication comes into play. The two wings should have signals that let the other know is the player across is on or off the line. That way these issues do not arise. We were taught and still use the "punch back" if the wideout is off the line, if there are two off on my side, I am punching with two fingers extended to let my partner know.

As for the original post, no way a U or R should be making this call, they have no angle to see if someone is on the line, off the line, or in that no mans land. This is the wings responsibility.

I've worked with crews that punch back or signal on as well. Why. Why would the guy on the other side of me care if the guy closest to me is on or off ... all he should care about from my side is how many. All I care about on his side is how many. 3 + 3 or 4+2 is six, regardless of whether or not the guy closest to me is one of my 2 or 3 or 4.

On/Off works best when R is responsible (perhaps a 3 man crew) since R is counting backs and can't tell if your guy is on or off. But this is truly the weaker way to do it.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I've worked with crews that punch back or signal on as well. Why. Why would the guy on the other side of me care if the guy closest to me is on or off ... all he should care about from my side is how many. All I care about on his side is how many. 3 + 3 or 4+2 is six, regardless of whether or not the guy closest to me is one of my 2 or 3 or 4.

On/Off works best when R is responsible (perhaps a 3 man crew) since R is counting backs and can't tell if your guy is on or off. But this is truly the weaker way to do it.

I feel it is significantly easier to count the number of backs than the number of linemen. Since they are often in a straight line from the wing it can be tricky to count them. 99% of the time the offense has 11 so don't get hung up on the R's signal. If they have 10 or fewer they are going to hold the signal much longer anyway. This is an odd penalty for A anyway since they are at a disadvantage if they have 10 players with 4 backs. I much prefer the NCAA rule for this reason.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I feel it is significantly easier to count the number of backs than the number of linemen. Since they are often in a straight line from the wing it can be tricky to count them. 99% of the time the offense has 11 so don't get hung up on the R's signal. If they have 10 or fewer they are going to hold the signal much longer anyway. This is an odd penalty for A anyway since they are at a disadvantage if they have 10 players with 4 backs. I much prefer the NCAA rule for this reason.

Me too. I should add this to "stupid rules." It's essentially a rule for playing with 10 players (instead of 11).

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I much prefer the NCAA rule for this reason.

I do too.

This is Reason # 4567 that I like that we play under NCAA rules here.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Not on a good crew. HL and LJ should be able to count 7 regardless of what R and U have. Look at the center, count how many are on the line on your side of the center and signal that to your partner. If the total is 6 (plus the center making 7), you're good. if it's too many, you're still good. Light? You should BOTH have a flag.

I've worked on crews that rely on R's count and then counting the backfield --- they miss far too many of these, and also are not really ready when the play starts more often than not.

For us I think it is easier and more mechanically correct to count the backs. We don't need to know that the offense has 11 as long as there are no more than 4 backs. That said we should still be counting our team's sideline as a wing.