dead ball contact

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I can understand why the presence of quick and jerky motion could affect whether contact was made, but not where.

If the "quick and jerky movement was judged to be A turning his back, so as to create the illusions of B fouling, does it really matter where such action took place?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If the "quick and jerky movement was judged to be A turning his back, so as to create the illusions of B fouling, does it really matter where such action took place?

No, I meant where on A's body the contact took place. And if A was already facing the ball, his back was already turned to a B player outside of him.

[HLin NC]

It's either a false start and or personal foul and/or nothing, based on the covering official(s) judgment.

Clipping and/or BIB is a live ball foul, this is dead ball action.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

It's either a false start and or personal foul and/or nothing, based on the covering official(s) judgment.

Clipping and/or BIB is a live ball foul, this is dead ball action.

What if we turn the sequence of events around and make it contact shortly after a ball becomes dead? Is it still a choice of UR or nothing, or can you call illegal BBW or clipping?

How about more extreme circumstances, where the ball becomes dead (or was never live when it appeared to be) but most of the players & officials don't realize it, and what would be illegal BBW or clipping occurs during an apparent play which is later determined to have been a dead ball interval?

[HLin NC]

What part of dead ball foul vs. live ball foul are you not grasping here? It is NOT going to be a clip.

What if space aliens invaded at the snap? Zombies rise from old graves buried beneath the field? Elvis and the marching band think its halftime and start to perform?

Its still a dead ball foul, no matter the fantasy.

[Robert Goodman]

What if we extend the discussion to non-contact fouls?

A1, running with a live ball, steps out of bounds at B's 35, but doesn't know it. He proceeds down the field, turns around at B's 5, and enters the end zone demonstratively backing up, Johnny Rodgers style; an official who also doesn't realize the ball was dead flags it for taunting. Is that a form of USC that can be assessed if the violator thinks the ball is live (or regardless of what he thinks or whether the ball is live), or is it a foul only if the ball is actually in play?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What if we extend the discussion to non-contact fouls?

A1, running with a live ball, steps out of bounds at B's 35, but doesn't know it. He proceeds down the field, turns around at B's 5, and enters the end zone demonstratively backing up, Johnny Rodgers style; an official who also doesn't realize the ball was dead flags it for taunting. Is that a form of USC that can be assessed if the violator thinks the ball is live (or regardless of what he thinks or whether the ball is live), or is it a foul only if the ball is actually in play?

I've only got one season of football under my belt, but it seems to me taunting is taunting.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What if we extend the discussion to non-contact fouls?

A1, running with a live ball, steps out of bounds at B's 35, but doesn't know it. He proceeds down the field, turns around at B's 5, and enters the end zone demonstratively backing up, Johnny Rodgers style; an official who also doesn't realize the ball was dead flags it for taunting. Is that a form of USC that can be assessed if the violator thinks the ball is live (or regardless of what he thinks or whether the ball is live), or is it a foul only if the ball is actually in play?

I concur with Adam. Unsportsmanlike Conduct doesn't care what the status of the ball is. It can occur by any player, coach or other team representative at any time during the contest.
On the other hand, if the wing official trailing the play knows the player stepped out of bounds and let the runner get 30 yards down field without his partner knowing the play had ended, there are communications issues that must be addressed between the crew.
If it turns out the whistles had been blowing, the crew all knew the play was dead and the defense had already started to return to their huddle, then I would rather assess 5 yards for DoG, instead of 15 for USC.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What if we extend the discussion to non-contact fouls?

A1, running with a live ball, steps out of bounds at B's 35, but doesn't know it. He proceeds down the field, turns around at B's 5, and enters the end zone demonstratively backing up, Johnny Rodgers style; an official who also doesn't realize the ball was dead flags it for taunting. Is that a form of USC that can be assessed if the violator thinks the ball is live (or regardless of what he thinks or whether the ball is live), or is it a foul only if the ball is actually in play?

USC can be either live-ball or dead-ball, and what the "violator thinks" about the status of the ball is irrelevant. The basic spot is the succeeding spot. 10-4-5a