Rules book and case book

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

So what's easier: implementing a system of testing and evaluation of football officials statewide (with something like 4500 officials), or empowering coaches to challenge officials on the rules during a game? We could (and likely will) do both, eventually, but in the short term I think the answer is clear.

I don't read what they're doing as "trying to do its own thing," at least not just change for its own sake. The Gold Book generally and this provision in particular are motivated by a good faith effort to improve the consistency, overall quality, and accountability of football officiating in Ohio.

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

[JRutledge]

There is nothing wrong with having standards or consistency, but I would think the goal would be to use things that work, not use things that are outdated or do not help the officials or the coaches understanding what is being done out there. If you are watching through a passer and cannot see his arm on a pass, how are you going to get "consistency?" It is simply bad.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

One more reason not to live in Ohio. There are many reasons, but this is a big one for me.

Be careful. I doubt I'd want to even visit Illinois, much less live there. Politicians (and others) run amok.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Be careful. I doubt I'd want to even visit Illinois, much less live there. Politicians (and others) run amok.

I honestly hope you do not think my comments had anything to do with Illinois. Some of us travel and go to other parts of the country. Maybe you need to leave Texas sometimes, after all you guys do think you are in your own country. I used to spend several summers and several holiday seasons in Texas as my dad lived there for years.

Having spent a lot of time in Texas and even went to school there for a brief time as well, I really would not go there about politicians or anything else for that matter. I remember a former governor involved in the SMU Death Penalty scandal giving money to players as a normal and approved university practice. And that same school had a former coach that went on to coach another Texas school and tried to make a murdered player sound like a drug dealer at Baylor to save his behind.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

Just like every little local league want to tweak the rules for their league, this is no different, just on a larger scale. Why in the world one state (any state) would think they can do better than a national entity is beyond me.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Just like every little local league want to tweak the rules for their league, this is no different, just on a larger scale. Why in the world one state (any state) would think they can do better than a national entity is beyond me.

You mean like TASO?

In actuality, many TASO mechanics are similar to NFHS and as a whole, when they differ, I believe TASO mechanics are superior.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by maven

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

So what's easier: implementing a system of testing and evaluation of football officials statewide (with something like 4500 officials), or empowering coaches to challenge officials on the rules during a game? We could (and likely will) do both, eventually, but in the short term I think the answer is clear.

I don't read what they're doing as "trying to do its own thing," at least not just change for its own sake. The Gold Book generally and this provision in particular are motivated by a good faith effort to improve the consistency, overall quality, and accountability of football officiating in Ohio.

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

I don't have a huge issue with the challenge itself, but with putting the onus on the officials to justify your calls by pointing out the rule when challenged.

Make the coach show you the rule if he thinks you're wrong.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by maven

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

Same around here, even with a test every year.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Same around here, even with a test every year.

Ditto. I wonder how many people here simply get an answer key and don't take the time to take the tests. And we help feed that by going over the Part I and Part II tests at association meetings, too. You really wouldn't ever have to take a test yourself, I wouldn't think.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Rich

Ditto. I wonder how many people here simply get an answer key and don't take the time to take the tests. And we help feed that by going over the Part I and Part II tests at association meetings, too. You really wouldn't ever have to take a test yourself, I wouldn't think.

Our state has foiled that by giving each official a discrete test. The online-only T/F test has 50 questions which are pulled from a pool of 250 NFHS-supplied questions at the time we log in. Thus, an answer key is useless.

The whole purpose of our pre-season test is to get officials "into the book" by allowing enough time to look up the answers. We have 2 hours to answer the 50 questions.

[maven]

Originally Posted by CT1

Our state has foiled that by giving each official a discrete test. The online-only T/F test has 50 questions which are pulled from a pool of 250 NFHS-supplied questions at the time we log in. Thus, an answer key is useless.

The whole purpose of our pre-season test is to get officials "into the book" by allowing enough time to look up the answers. We have 2 hours to answer the 50 questions.

That's a good implementation, IMO. Please post or PM which state is doing that, and I'll pass it along.