Rules book and case book

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

Had this in my game Friday night: I waved off my own flag for running into the kicker, and the coach demanded to see the rule that allowed me to do that. So I showed him 9-4-5a and explained that in my judgment a kick was not reasonably certain (his punter has muffed the snap and run about 4 yards before kicking the ball).

He disagreed with my judgment but was quite polite about it.

I forgot to assess him a charged TO for that, but that error turned out to make no difference in the game.

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Rich

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

Rich:

I am ruled by the Gold Book these days. I don't always agree with everything in it, but we do as we are told. I'd be interested to know what an outsider considers "amazingly nutty" in it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by parepat

Rich:

I am ruled by the Gold Book these days. I don't always agree with everything in it, but we do as we are told. I'd be interested to know what an outsider considers "amazingly nutty" in it.

Putting the R on the wide side of the field rather than the passing hand side is the first thing that comes to mind. It's much easier for me (as the R) to see a hand coming forward on a pass attempt from the passing hand side and OH seems to be the only state/body to make this rather big switch.

I'll walk through it again and find some other things.

[bigjohn]

18. R & Toss: Catch the coin or flip the coin again.

Just read the bulletin, lots of sillies according to what I read in this forum.

http://owvfoa.com/ohio%202011%20playoff%20bulletin.pdf

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

18. R & Toss: Catch the coin or flip the coin again.

Just read the bulletin, lots of sillies according to what I read in this forum.

http://owvfoa.com/ohio%202011%20playoff%20bulletin.pdf

There's a lot of differences. I'd hate to be an experienced official who moves to or moves from Ohio.

The only things that stand out that I absolutely do not like (on top of the having to show the rule to the coach and R on the wide side of the field) are:

--Wings working on the field, ever. Especially the mechanic on try kicks. I'm not fond of putting the umpire under the uprights, either. He's the voice and the presence after the kick in the pile and I think it's important he be in there.

--BJ is too shallow at 17 yards.

--Giving a "catch" signal. Completely unnecessary.

--It's a really nice thought that the wings will be at the goal line before the runner, but that's only going to happen with goal line mechanics (when the back judge can't get to the goal line). Otherwise, the proper mechanics dictate that the wing trail the play at a safe distance and watch the blocking action and the sideline and then communicate with the back judge, who will have the goal line (and will signal).

-- I'm not sure when I've held the ball up as the R at the end of the period. I have the umpire do that since I'm 15 yards deep. What's the big deal with this, anyway?

--Telling the R's how to conduct a coin toss is odd, IMO.

I applaud the state's efforts in consistency. Really, I do. And their kickoff mechanics sound great to me, putting the R/H/L deeper than the deepest receiver (it what I was hoping the NFHS would move towards and instead they went the other way and took another official out of deep coverage to cover an illegal block that rarely, rarely happens).

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Rich

Putting the R on the wide side of the field rather than the passing hand side is the first thing that comes to mind. It's much easier for me (as the R) to see a hand coming forward on a pass attempt from the passing hand side and OH seems to be the only state/body to make this rather big switch.

I'll walk through it again and find some other things.

I agree. The other result is that when A runs or throws to the wide side, the R can t help w the ball as he has to rush to the other side of the QB.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

So what's easier: implementing a system of testing and evaluation of football officials statewide (with something like 4500 officials), or empowering coaches to challenge officials on the rules during a game? We could (and likely will) do both, eventually, but in the short term I think the answer is clear.

I don't read what they're doing as "trying to do its own thing," at least not just change for its own sake. The Gold Book generally and this provision in particular are motivated by a good faith effort to improve the consistency, overall quality, and accountability of football officiating in Ohio.

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

[JRutledge]

There is nothing wrong with having standards or consistency, but I would think the goal would be to use things that work, not use things that are outdated or do not help the officials or the coaches understanding what is being done out there. If you are watching through a passer and cannot see his arm on a pass, how are you going to get "consistency?" It is simply bad.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

One more reason not to live in Ohio. There are many reasons, but this is a big one for me.

Be careful. I doubt I'd want to even visit Illinois, much less live there. Politicians (and others) run amok.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Be careful. I doubt I'd want to even visit Illinois, much less live there. Politicians (and others) run amok.

I honestly hope you do not think my comments had anything to do with Illinois. Some of us travel and go to other parts of the country. Maybe you need to leave Texas sometimes, after all you guys do think you are in your own country. I used to spend several summers and several holiday seasons in Texas as my dad lived there for years.

Having spent a lot of time in Texas and even went to school there for a brief time as well, I really would not go there about politicians or anything else for that matter. I remember a former governor involved in the SMU Death Penalty scandal giving money to players as a normal and approved university practice. And that same school had a former coach that went on to coach another Texas school and tried to make a murdered player sound like a drug dealer at Baylor to save his behind.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

Just like every little local league want to tweak the rules for their league, this is no different, just on a larger scale. Why in the world one state (any state) would think they can do better than a national entity is beyond me.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Just like every little local league want to tweak the rules for their league, this is no different, just on a larger scale. Why in the world one state (any state) would think they can do better than a national entity is beyond me.

You mean like TASO?

In actuality, many TASO mechanics are similar to NFHS and as a whole, when they differ, I believe TASO mechanics are superior.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by maven

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

So what's easier: implementing a system of testing and evaluation of football officials statewide (with something like 4500 officials), or empowering coaches to challenge officials on the rules during a game? We could (and likely will) do both, eventually, but in the short term I think the answer is clear.

I don't read what they're doing as "trying to do its own thing," at least not just change for its own sake. The Gold Book generally and this provision in particular are motivated by a good faith effort to improve the consistency, overall quality, and accountability of football officiating in Ohio.

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

I don't have a huge issue with the challenge itself, but with putting the onus on the officials to justify your calls by pointing out the rule when challenged.

Make the coach show you the rule if he thinks you're wrong.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by maven

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

Same around here, even with a test every year.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Same around here, even with a test every year.

Ditto. I wonder how many people here simply get an answer key and don't take the time to take the tests. And we help feed that by going over the Part I and Part II tests at association meetings, too. You really wouldn't ever have to take a test yourself, I wouldn't think.