Replay Official cannot rule on Possession

[MD Longhorn]

I want to keep this thread solely on this topic, and not on whether or not the call in the GB-Seat game was correct.

Gerry Austin said this, and ESPN is including this in their crawl. Austin said that the Replay Official cannot rule on possession on the play in question.

Does anyone have the replay rule that says this? Seems to me that possession is A#1 Critical to knowing whether a score was made or not. I find it incredibly odd if Austin is correct in his statement.

[Raymond]

I would think there is a difference between ruling on possession (falling down; sideline; etc) and on dual possession.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would think there is a difference between ruling on possession (falling down; sideline; etc) and on dual possession.

I don't see dual possession in the list of things you can't review.

[BigBaldGuy]

It will be reviewable next year....

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I don't see dual possession in the list of things you can't review.

As mentioned in the other thread, I agree. It's a rule of exclusion (or inclusion, depending on your perspective) and clearly includes "Pass complete/incomplete/intercepted at sideline, goal line, end zone, and end line" as reviewable, with nothing suggesting otherwise in the rule as published. (Rule below.)

Not much coverage on what I think is the key question from last night -- was there a review? The ref came back and seemed to indicate that there was. He said, "the ruling on the field stands," not "the play is unreviewable. But it was unclear whether he actually went under the hood. The way it's supposed to work on scoring plays and in the last 2 minutes is that the replay official makes a decision whether or not the play should be reviewed (after obtaining clarification of what the on-field call is if needed.) If the replay official decides yes, the ref goes the review under the hood. If the replay official determined thumbs down on ref review based on a view that he could not review possession, I think that was error, at least under the rule as written.

Another problem last night was the confusion about what the call was on the field. Given that the call on the field has presumptive correctness (and may actually be unreviewable if replay booth officials make "possession" interpretations), there should be a more sound mechanic for announcing to the teams and the crowd what the call is on the field. My view of what happened was that one official had Int and one had TD, and they made eye contact, each thought the other was going to call what they had, but then gave contradictory signals. I'm not even certain that the ref (who was still 15 yards away) knew that and may have believed the call on the field was TD without consulting with the two officials merely because he saw one had his arms raised. They should have caucused to make sure what the field call was, and then announced it via PA, which seems to be the common mechanic with the regular refs. If that happened, they didn't show it on tv.

Rule:

Reviewable Plays. The Replay System will cover the following play situations only:
(a) Plays governed by Sideline, Goal Line, End Zone, and End Line:
1. Scoring plays, including a runner breaking the plane of the goal line.
2. Pass complete/incomplete/intercepted at sideline, goal line, end zone, and end
line.
3. Runner/receiver in or out of bounds.
4. Recovery of loose ball in or out of bounds.
(b) Passing plays:
1. Pass ruled complete/incomplete/intercepted in the field of play.
2. Touching of a forward pass by an ineligible receiver.
3. Touching of a forward pass by a defensive player.
4. Quarterback (Passer) forward pass or fumble.
5. Illegal forward pass beyond line of scrimmage.
6. Illegal forward pass after change of possession.
7. Forward or backward pass thrown from behind line of scrimmage.
(c) Other reviewable plays:
1. Runner ruled not down by defensive contact.
2. Runner ruled down by defensive contact when the recovery of a fumble by an
opponent or a teammate occurs in the action that happens following the
fumble.
3. Ruling of incomplete pass when the recovery of a passer’s fumble by an opponent
or a teammate occurs in the action following the fumble.
4. Ruling of a loose ball out of bounds when it is recovered in the field of play by
an opponent or a teammate in the action after the ball hits the ground.
Note 1: If the ruling of down by contact or incomplete pass is changed, the ball belongs
to the recovering player at the spot of the recovery of the fumble, and any advance is
nullified.
Note 2: If the Referee does not have indisputable visual evidence as to which player recovered
the loose ball, the ruling on the field will stand.
Note 3: This does not apply to complete/incomplete passes, or the ruling of forward
progress.
5. Forward progress with respect to a first down.
6. Touching of a kick.
7. A field-goal or Try attempt that crosses below or above the crossbar, inside or
outside the uprights when it is lower than the top of the uprights, or touches anything.
8. Number of players on the field at the snap.
9. Illegal forward handoff.
Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:
1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration
4. Runner ruled down by defensive contact (not involving fumbles)
5. Forward progress not relating to first down or goal line
6. Recovery of a loose ball that does not involve a boundary line or the end zone.
7. Field-goal or Try attempts that cross above either upright without touching
anything.
8. Inadvertent Whistle

[APG]

Back when Mike Peirra was head of officiating and was doing his weekly segment...there was a joint possession play and he mentioned joint possession is not reviewable.

[APG]

NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown - NFL.com

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

[Adam]

I believe I predicted this. They either had to do this or end the lockout (regardless of whether this had anything to do with the replacement officials.)

I will notice they really didn't say whether the simultaneous possession call was actually correct. Only that it wasn't reversible.

[Trap]

I think the NFL is obviously being careful what they say. They are more or less saying that they shouldn't or couldn't reverse the call. I also think the mention of the the pass interference was to admit it was wrong, but not throw the officials under the bus.

It's pretty obvious to most, it was wrong call. Except to 3 people ( side judge, referee, and replay official) at the game and a couple other "sympathetic" voices.

Tho I also do wonder if the replay official actually knew he could review it. Because until lately, everything I heard was that the possesion part was not reviewable and still hear conflicting info. So how is he suppose to know.

[bigjohn]

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Right, Jeff?

[rulesmaven]

A couple of interesting things there.

First, the booth called for a review. I think that's pretty significant. I believe the statistics on booth initiated reviews show a much higher reversal rate than coach challenges. The NFL doesn't seem to have a published standard for when the replay booth should call for a review. In practice, though, they tend only to buzz if there is some solid evidence that the play may have been called incorrectly on the field. Put another way, it tends to be more than just, "hey, why don't you have a look." Typically, a buzz means there's a significant question.

Second, the release says the ref actually did review the play. That was unclear from the telecast. It never showed him under the hood. But, from the time that elapsed, it appears to have been a very quick review.

Originally Posted by Trap

It's pretty obvious to most, it was wrong call. Except to 3 people ( side judge, referee, and replay official) at the game and a couple other "sympathetic" voices.

Tho I also do wonder if the replay official actually knew he could review it. Because until lately, everything I heard was that the possesion part was not reviewable and still hear conflicting info.

I think you're reading it wrong. The replay official concluded there was enough question to call for a review. He did not affirm the call in any way. It was the ref who did so, after being told by the booth to review it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

I think you're reading it wrong. The replay official concluded there was enough question to call for a review. He did not affirm the call in any way. It was the ref who did so, after being told by the booth to review it.

Are we so sure about this? I have seen some evidence that the league wanted the replay guys (who are regular officials) to have them bail the guys out of obvious mistakes.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Trap

I think the NFL is obviously being careful what they say. They are more or less saying that they shouldn't or couldn't reverse the call. I also think the mention of the the pass interference was to admit it was wrong, but not throw the officials under the bus.

It's pretty obvious to most, it was wrong call. Except to 3 people ( side judge, referee, and replay official) at the game and a couple other "sympathetic" voices.

Tho I also do wonder if the replay official actually knew he could review it. Because until lately, everything I heard was that the possesion part was not reviewable and still hear conflicting info. So how is he suppose to know.

And by "sympathetic" voices, you mean "those who don't see it like I do."

[Texas Aggie]

The replay official concluded there was enough question to call for a review.

All scoring plays are reviewed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

All scoring plays are reviewed.

All are reviewed by the replay official, but not all are sent down to the White Hat for an official review.