Last play of GB Seattle

[APG]

Originally Posted by Adam

On the catch, I'm just not so sure. It looks like Tate has his hand in there from the moment the ball arrives. As crowder noted, there's no distinction with SP on who has better possession.

I'm not positive either way on this, but if the flag is down, it doesn't matter.

He has a hand in there...but I've never seen that considered enough for possession...especially when it comes to joint possession. Compare that to the DB who clearly has control of the ball with two hands on the ball. Seemed pretty evident to me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

He has a hand in there...but I've never seen that considered enough for possession...especially when it comes to joint possession. Compare that to the DB who clearly has control of the ball with two hands on the ball. Seemed pretty evident to me.

The problem is you cannot have possession (which is the only word the rulebook uses) off the ground. You only have possession when you come to the ground. I just think the Seattle player got it first and hit the ground first with both feet and on his back before the GB player got both feet down. It might not be pretty, but that is the rule in this case.

And I would love to jump all over this to say, "See they screwed up." Unfortunately I think I have to have some integrity and support them when they get a rule right and they clearly have not gotten many right over the last few weeks.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The problem is you cannot have possession (which is the only word the rulebook uses) off the ground. You only have possession when you come to the ground. I just think the Seattle player got it first and hit the ground first with both feet and on his back before the GB player got both feet down. It might not be pretty, but that is the rule in this case.

And I would love to jump all over this to say, "See they screwed up." Unfortunately I think I have to have some integrity and support them when they get a rule right and they clearly have not gotten many right over the last few weeks.

Peace

With regards to joint possession with both players in the air, I believe I should have used control of the ball. You're right that he doesn't have possession of a loose ball...he's going to have to complete the "process of the catch" for that to happen. One can gain control of a loose ball before he has possession of it though. Whose feet hit first though does not matter if a player gains control of the ball before the other a la A.R. 8.28 and 8.29.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by APG

He has a hand in there...but I've never seen that considered enough for possession...especially when it comes to joint possession. Compare that to the DB who clearly has control of the ball with two hands on the ball. Seemed pretty evident to me.

Announcers keep saying the same thing... but we should not. There is no such concept as "better control" or "more control" - there is either Control, or NO Control. Given that Tate had the ball in a hand solidly enough that Jennings couldn't wrench it from him even with both hands. If Tate comes down alone with that ball, we ALL call it control and a catch. He has control of the ball when they come down - simultaneous possession is the correct call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Announcers keep saying the same thing... but we should not. There is no such concept as "better control" or "more control" - there is either Control, or NO Control. Given that Tate had the ball in a hand solidly enough that Jennings couldn't wrench it from him even with both hands. If Tate comes down alone with that ball, we ALL call it control and a catch. He has control of the ball when they come down - simultaneous possession is the correct call.

Absolutely.

BTW, are you the next to change your name.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Absolutely.

BTW, are you the next to change your name.

Peace

What do you mean?

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Announcers keep saying the same thing... but we should not. There is no such concept as "better control" or "more control" - there is either Control, or NO Control. Given that Tate had the ball in a hand solidly enough that Jennings couldn't wrench it from him even with both hands. If Tate comes down alone with that ball, we ALL call it control and a catch. He has control of the ball when they come down - simultaneous possession is the correct call.

And that's just where we differ. I don't believe simply having his hand in there constitutes control. He doesn't have complete and firm control of the ball IMO. IMO, the DB has two hands on the ball and demonstrates complete and firm control of the ball. At best, IMO, one could argue the WR got control of the ball after the DB already had control.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

And that's just where we differ. I don't believe simply having his hand in there constitutes control. He doesn't have complete and firm control of the ball IMO. IMO, the DB has two hands on the ball and demonstrates complete and firm control of the ball. At best, IMO, one could argue the WR got control of the ball after the DB already had control.

Actually the last sentence is what I believed happened. The problem for the defense is he did not have possession first.

Peace

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I've seen guys stop the clock before a TB signal. Can't recall if it's NFL or NCAA.

Yes. I have seen officials give the "stop clock" signal immediately followed by the "touchback" signal. The back judge obviously wasn't signalling a touchdown since he gave the "stop clock" signal, so he had something different than the guy who signaled touchdown.

Originally Posted by APG

And that's just where we differ. I don't believe simply having his hand in there constitutes control. He doesn't have complete and firm control of the ball IMO. IMO, the DB has two hands on the ball and demonstrates complete and firm control of the ball. At best, IMO, one could argue the WR got control of the ball after the DB already had control.

I agree. I just don't see how the Seattle WR had control/possession of the ball in the same way the Green Bay DB did. I still think this call was awful and the mechanics were awful.