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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:20pm
big jake
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Sub penalty High school

Def player running off the field and the ball is snapped before he gets to his sideline. He is the 12th player. Is this a dead ball foul or do you let the play run and give the O the option on taking the play or the penalty
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Old Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:48pm
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Live ball illegal substitution foul at the snap, if accepted enforced 5 yards from the previous spot and the down replayed.
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Old Sat Sep 22, 2012, 09:07pm
big jake
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so, do not kill the play? at the snap?
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Old Sun Sep 23, 2012, 06:13am
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See above
Quote:
Live ball illegal substitution foul at the snap
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Old Sun Sep 23, 2012, 07:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big jake View Post
so, do not kill the play? at the snap?
It doesn't become a foul until the snap.

Fouls like illegal motion, illegal shift, illegal formation, etc. are live-ball fouls because they can be "fixed" up until the time the ball is snapped.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 01:25pm
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You are being generous to the defense to call IS. If the defense tried to sub at the last second and sent a player on and immediately the sub tried to leave, it's not IS. It IP, however, I would call the IS because it's 5 yards and IP is 15.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:21pm
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Quote:
You are being generous to the defense to call IS. If the defense tried to sub at the last second and sent a player on and immediately the sub tried to leave, it's not IS. It IP, however, I would call the IS because it's 5 yards and IP is 15.
B is not under the same restrictions as A in regards to formations and being between the numbers after the RFP to the snap. They are also not gaining much of an advantage subbing at the last second

In the original post, it is stated he is running off the field so it is apparent he is making an effort to leave. Some wings will even step in if it can put him behind and out of sight and thus avoid the foul entirely.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:49pm
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Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
You are being generous to the defense to call IS. If the defense tried to sub at the last second and sent a player on and immediately the sub tried to leave, it's not IS. It IP, however, I would call the IS because it's 5 yards and IP is 15.
Yes, it is IS.

It's not IP unless he remains on the field and participates in the play.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 07:00pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Yes, it is IS.

It's not IP unless he remains on the field and participates in the play.
Agree. I'm sometimes surprised by how challenging the concept of 'participation' seems to be for some officials.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:40pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Yes, it is IS.

It's not IP unless he remains on the field and participates in the play.
YEP!! And, if I am a wing official and he is really running hard to get OOB I will give him the benefit of the doubt if he is within a couple yards of the sideline.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Yes, it is IS.

It's not IP unless he remains on the field and participates in the play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
Agree. I'm sometimes surprised by how challenging the concept of 'participation' seems to be for some officials.
Thanks, guys. I was starting to question my sanity there a moment.

Crisis averted.
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Old Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big jake View Post
Def player running off the field and the ball is snapped before he gets to his sideline. He is the 12th player. Is this a dead ball foul or do you let the play run and give the O the option on taking the play or the penalty
CANADIAN RULING:

Legal, assuming that Team B player's run to the sideline didn't confuse an A player, and B was near the sideline.
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Old Thu Sep 27, 2012, 05:48am
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On the topic of IS and IP, I have worked with Rs that will take a definitive IP (as in we counted 12 AFTER the play was over) and call it IS because of the difference in the fouls. Why would a R be afraid to make this call?
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Old Thu Sep 27, 2012, 09:00am
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Originally Posted by McMac View Post
On the topic of IS and IP, I have worked with Rs that will take a definitive IP (as in we counted 12 AFTER the play was over) and call it IS because of the difference in the fouls. Why would a R be afraid to make this call?
Because 15 yards is a drive killer, and they are afraid to affect the game.
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