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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 08:57am
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In a traditional field goal formation, the wings should be looking at the ends and upbacks, not at the holder. The holder and kicker should be 100% the R's responsibility.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:18am
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Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
In a traditional field goal formation, the wings should be looking at the ends and upbacks, not at the holder. The holder and kicker should be 100% the R's responsibility.
This.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:41am
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Quote:
True, but it probably needs to be clear to 3 officials, as the wings might blow this dead, too.
I have no idea what the kicker and holder are doing in a 5 man crew.
I've got the LOS all the way as the LJ is back with BJ.
In four man, which is rare anymore for me as most of our JV games have added a BJ, I do have K&H protection after the kick as R has to look up to assist the LJ.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:47am
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Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
I've got the LOS all the way as the LJ is back with BJ.
In Ohio, U and B have the uprights, and the wings are on the line.

And I realize that the holder is not their primary. My point was, if they see him pass or hand off without rising, they might kill it.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
True, but it probably needs to be clear to 3 officials, as the wings might blow this dead, too.
If my wings blow this dead, we're having a mechanics discussion. The holder/kicker are 100% mine.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:49am
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
In Ohio, U and B have the uprights, and the wings are on the line.

And I realize that the holder is not their primary. My point was, if they see him pass or hand off without rising, they might kill it.
It's not their place to do so. Period.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
In Ohio, U and B have the uprights, and the wings are on the line.
Same in MN.

So, with OH/MN mechanics:
R has kicker/holder.
H and L have ends, upbacks.
B and U have interior linemen (U has snapper) and uprights.

I'm not sure how it would work with regular FED-approved mechanics, as I've never used them in this situation. But still, the wing(s) should NEVER be looking at the holder.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:53pm
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Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.
Is his knee on the ground or is it 2" off the ground like you said in the OP?

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:14pm
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REPLY: BktBallRef said, "He is not required to put his knee on the ground." That's true in general, but if the team plans on using the numbering exception, then they must be in a legal scrimmage kick formation. That DOES require that the holder has a knee (or knees) on the ground. So if a team had less than five numbered 50-79 on the line and ran the play from the original post, there would be illegal formation at the snap.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob M. View Post
REPLY: BktBallRef said, "He is not required to put his knee on the ground." That's true in general, but if the team plans on using the numbering exception, then they must be in a legal scrimmage kick formation. That DOES require that the holder has a knee (or knees) on the ground. So if a team had less than five numbered 50-79 on the line and ran the play from the original post, there would be illegal formation at the snap.

Was just about to post this. Thank you.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:32pm
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
In Ohio, U and B have the uprights, and the wings are on the line.

And I realize that the holder is not their primary. My point was, if they see him pass or hand off without rising, they might kill it.
Don't go fishing in someone else's pond.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob M. View Post
REPLY: BktBallRef said, "He is not required to put his knee on the ground." That's true in general, but if the team plans on using the numbering exception, then they must be in a legal scrimmage kick formation. That DOES require that the holder has a knee (or knees) on the ground. So if a team had less than five numbered 50-79 on the line and ran the play from the original post, there would be illegal formation at the snap.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 04:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob M. View Post
REPLY: BktBallRef said, "He is not required to put his knee on the ground." That's true in general, but if the team plans on using the numbering exception, then they must be in a legal scrimmage kick formation. That DOES require that the holder has a knee (or knees) on the ground. So if a team had less than five numbered 50-79 on the line and ran the play from the original post, there would be illegal formation at the snap.
It's a good point -- one which I was aware of, but not mentioned in the original post. Many schools around here do not use a numbering exception on a try.
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