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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:09pm
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Trick extra point

I believe we've discussed this here before but couldn't remember the outcome. I'm white hat in a JV game. The coach tells me about a trick extra point right before it happens.

The holder acts like he's kneeling but his knee is about 2 inches off the ground. Takes the snap and does a modified statue of liberty play and they score 2 on a sweep.

Something strikes me like the 'hey coach I need a new ball' trickery play. Thoughts? Would you kill it or let it go?
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:13pm
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Like this from 1999?

Link
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:16pm
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We are in NFHS rules
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:54pm
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The holder may start on his knee during a try: this trickery is needless. He must rise from his knee to pass (forward or backward), run, or hand the ball off. Starting with his knee 1 inch off the ground will not excuse him from needing to rise before running or passing.

If he does not rise, I will probably rule the ball dead according to 4-2-2a Exception.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 09:03pm
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Quote:
The holder may start on his knee during a try: this trickery is needless. He must rise from his knee to pass (forward or backward), run, or hand the ball off. Starting with his knee 1 inch off the ground will not excuse him from needing to rise before running or passing.
Then you are making up your own rule. Some deception is a part of football- no different than a fake handoff, pump fake, fake spike, faking a blitz.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 09:20pm
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After research, the casebook clearly defines this as legal if he rises up from the ground.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 10:09pm
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Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
After research, the casebook clearly defines this as legal if he rises up from the ground.
It's legal whether he rises or not.

He is not required to put his knee on the ground. If his knee is off the ground, he can legally hand the ball off or pass it without standing.

The wrong ball play is deceiving the defense into believing there's a problem and the ball isn't going to be snapped. That's why it's illegal. This play is a legal deception AFTER the ball is snapped. The two plays are not the same at all.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:15pm
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So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.
Nobody ever said the knee was on the ground. If it's clearly off the ground, he doesn't have to rise further.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:19pm
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Originally Posted by voiceoflg View Post
Like this from 1999?

Link
Perfectly fine in NCAA rules.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.
You said in the OP that his knee was never down.
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Old Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:53pm
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Ah, I agree
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Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 06:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
If it's clearly off the ground, he doesn't have to rise further.
I agree with this, provided that it's clear that the knee is not down. That might be less than clear in the OP.
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Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 08:43am
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
I agree with this, provided that it's clear that the knee is not down. That might be less than clear in the OP.
Clear to the official, not necessarily clear to the defense.
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Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 08:44am
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Clear to the official, not necessarily clear to the defense.
True, but it probably needs to be clear to 3 officials, as the wings might blow this dead, too.
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