Is it a touchdown?

[mtridge]

If a player controls a pass end the endzone and is pushed to the one yard line before he first touches the ground is it a touchdown or if tackled there is the ball at the one.

the basic philosophy says possession in the opponents endzone is always a touchdown. The rule book defines a control or held ball as possession. However if you say that having the ball behind the goal line would create a touchdown then why would someone who controls it and goes out of bounds have an incomplete pass. If you say that it is not a touchdown and it goes to the one then how is a controlled or held ball defined such that it would not be possession?

[mbyron]

Touchdown. NFHS 2.15.1

The solution to your quandary is forward progress: if a player catches the ball and his forward progress is stopped in bounds, then he is treated as if he had contacted the ground at the forward progress spot. True for sideline plays as well.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Touchdown. NFHS 2.15.1

The solution to your quandary is forward progress: if a player catches the ball and his forward progress is stopped in bounds, then he is treated as if he had contacted the ground at the forward progress spot. True for sideline plays as well.

Agree it's a TD. But how do you square your sideline explanation with the new definition of "catch", and the Comments to the rules changes?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by CT1

Agree it's a TD. But how do you square your sideline explanation with the new definition of "catch", and the Comments to the rules changes?

I believe what I'm saying is consistent with the new definition and comments, the latter of which do not address forward progress. A new case play, however, does.

Originally Posted by 2012 NFHS Football Case Book

*4.3.3 SITUATION B:

A has third down and seven yards to gain at B's 30. A1 leaps near the sideline to attempt to catch a pass near B's 30-yard line. A1 is: (a) airborne trying to make the catch and is knocked backwards by B2 attempting to make the tackle and A1 lands outside the sideline at B's 32 or (b) airborne when he controls the ball attempting to complete the catch and is carried off the field by B2 landing out of bounds.

RULING: In (a), the pass is incomplete and the clock should start on the snap. In (b), the covering official must determine if forward progress was stopped in the field of play. If the covering official determines that progress was stopped in the field of play, it is a catch and the clock should not stop. If stopped inadvertently by the covering official, the clock should be restarted on the ready for play. If progress was not determined to be stopped in the field of play, the pass is incomplete and the clock shall be stopped, to be restarted on the snap. (2-15-1, 2; 4-3-2)

For the OP, I also found this new case play:

Originally Posted by 2012 NFHS Football Case Book

*7.5.4 SITUATION G:

A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he is downed.

RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A *possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

[voiceoflg]

Just trying to make sense of this.

"possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone (in mid air)" when landing out of the end zone at the one is a touchdown.

"possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone (in mid air)" when landing out of the end zone out of bounds is an incomplete pass out of bounds.

"possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone (in mid air)" but losing possession after hitting the ground is an incomplete pass.

Are these correct?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Just trying to make sense of this.

"possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone (in mid air)" when landing out of the end zone at the one is a touchdown.

"possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone (in mid air)" when landing out of the end zone out of bounds is an incomplete pass out of bounds.

"possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone (in mid air)" but losing possession after hitting the ground is an incomplete pass.

Are these correct?

1. Correct (7.5.4).

2. Depends: if he lands beyond the end line, that's incomplete. If we're talking about the sideline in the EZ, it's the same progress question as any other sideline play (4.3.3B).

3. Correct, not a catch (2-4-1).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mtridge

If a player controls a pass end the endzone and is pushed to the one yard line before he first touches the ground is it a touchdown or if tackled there is the ball at the one.

the basic philosophy says possession in the opponents endzone is always a touchdown. The rule book defines a control or held ball as possession. However if you say that having the ball behind the goal line would create a touchdown then why would someone who controls it and goes out of bounds have an incomplete pass. If you say that it is not a touchdown and it goes to the one then how is a controlled or held ball defined such that it would not be possession?

CANADIAN RULING:

Touchdown.

[Robert Goodman]

We know how Fed wants these cases ruled. It's just that they're being inconsistent if they're claiming to derive it from their concepts of "runner" and "possession".

For contrast, consider the situation if the receiver just touches the pass while the ball is in the opposing end zone, and then from an opponent's push winds up first controlling the ball while it's in the field of play. You can't rule progress to the end zone because not all of the conditions to make him a runner existed at that time. But it would appear in the case of controlling the ball while not touching the ground, he is allowed to have progress even though he doesnt satisfy all those conditions either.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I believe what I'm saying is consistent with the new definition and comments, the latter of which do not address forward progress. A new case play, however, does.:

Thanks for the CB reference. Not sure I would have ever thought to look for that under the Timing rule!