IG or Not?

[Cobra]

Obviously the call was wrong. He can only spike the ball after a hand to hand snap. What kind of discussion are you expecting about something that was obviously wrong?

[Welpe]

The coach is wrong, it isn't a 15 yard penalty.

And in NCAA this is legal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Obviously the call was wrong. He can only spike the ball after a hand to hand snap. What kind of discussion are you expecting about something that was obviously wrong?

Or the description of the play was wrong... all we have is the coachs' comments on the play. Got video?

Kind of stupid of the offended coach to get an, um .... 13 yard (!!!!???) unsportsmanlike penalty at that moment to make this an easier field goal, don't you think?

[bisonlj]

The offensive coach makes it sound like it wasn't a spike but more of a shovel pass to a RB that is not completed. That is a huge judgement call that you would have to see in person or on film to have any kind of opinion.

[CT1]

Why am I not surprised that a coach, "with NFHS rule book firmly in hand", doesn't know that the penalty for IG is five yards (+ LOD), not fifteen?

And on top of that, they got a 15-yard USC penalty that allowed a shorter FG attempt?

Good grief.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why am I not surprised that a coach, "with NFHS rule book firmly in hand", doesn't know that the penalty for IG is five yards (+ LOD), not fifteen?

And on top of that, they got a 15-yard USC penalty that allowed a shorter FG attempt?

Good grief.

Recheck that math ... apparently this USC was the very special 13 yard variety.

[ajmc]

Talk about the "blind leading the blind", it's amazing these two coaches made it as far as they have, knowing what they know, or don't know.

Broncos coach Kohl is partially correct in that is is a violation of NFHS 7-5-2-e, in that "a pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save yardage or to conserve time." is an Illegal forward pass, which calls for a 5 yard penalty (not 15 yds) and loss of down (the down is not repeated) and is enforced from the spot of the pass.

The stated exception to this rule states: It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forwardto the ground after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap.

The key word in this situation is "intentionally" which is always a judgment call make by the covering official, usually the Referee.

Liberty Coach Frigon introduces his own terminology into the equation by creating the term "Pistol Formation" which may exist in his surroundings but does not appear in any rule book. A shovel pass to another back (a fullback) as long as directed forward does constitute a legal forward pass, and unless deliberately thrown to be incomplete would not constitute an illegal forward pass, however, other than the actions of the passer, and possibly the receiver, the Referee has absolutely no way of knowing if the pass is thrown deliberately and intentionally to save either a loss of yardage or to save time, unless of course the coach of the passing team acknowledges that fact, after the game is over.

The Referee apparently judged the action he witnessed, an incomplete forward pass thrown to an eligible receiver behind the line, as not being a deliberate action. The fact that the Broncos received a 15 yard penalty for Unsportsmanlike Conduct, allowing the opponent the opportunity to successfully complete a winning field goal is entirely the responsibility of Coach Kohl for failing to maintain the level of composure required of him, as the adult supervisor of a team of student athletes.

I would suspect the Liberty School Administration and the supervisors of whatever governing body convened the contest, would take serious punitive action against Coach Frigon for acknowledging publicly that he deliberately instructed and encouraged his players to CHEAT by deliberately violating the NFHS rule against throwing an Illegal Forward Pass.
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[Ia-Ref]

The Chcago Bears QB did a hesitation before his grounding the ball after a hand-to-hand snap a week or so ago which resulted in a 10-second run-off and proved to be the final play of the game. Oops!