Punt Return Penalty

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe

As has been pointed out, you must have 8 on the line when receiving punts at this level in the TCYFL. Unfortunately, the rules don't indicate what the penalty should be for such an infraction, but I doubt I'd have gone with 10 yards from where the ball was received. It has to be a foul at the snap, I'd probably go with 5 yards but it wouldn't be PSK. If the offense accepted the penalty, it would be 5 yards replay 4th down (or first down if the LTG was reached).

I've never considered how I would penalize this, because at this level and below I won't blow the ball ready until both teams are lined up legally.

Most of the guys we see do this. At the beginning of the game, the crew informed us that as this was the last regular season game, they would be calling things tight. As you know, the typical crew at this level will remind receivers that they are lined up incorrectly, prevent the center from being touched on punts/PATs, explain penalties, etc. You guys do a great job of this and the game still moves along. I appreciae the effort and clarification of this rule. Our playoffs begin this weekend so the help is timely.

[JRutledge]

This is the reason I cannot stand these league rules. They are not always made clear to the officials and they have no real rules basis. Then the people that write them usually do not think of all the applications like what is the penalty if this is illegal? This is a recipe for disaster.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the reason I cannot stand these league rules. They are not always made clear to the officials and they have no real rules basis. Then the people that write them usually do not think of all the applications like what is the penalty if this is illegal? This is a recipe for disaster. Peace

I presume the notation U10 means "Under age 10", and at this level "local rules" likely have either some instructional or safety logic behind them. It sounds like you followed an appropriate procedure in asking for clarification, as did the officials in giving you an answer, as well as offering to explain further later. Ofter sharing different opinions about rule details, on the field during a game between adults, serves mainly to only bore and distract young players and detract from the game.

The objective, obviously, is to understand what is correct so mistakes are not repeated, and often officials don't have the opportunity to delve into such rules as deeply as they normally would to understand the intent, the reason, the logic, etc of NFHS rules. Any discussions related to the value or rationality of a "local" rule, might best be directed at the organization producing the rules, who would hopefully be able to explain their intent and purpose.

[MikeStrybel]

Well stated, thank you. It is refreshing to see officials treat each other with dignity, especially when one is trying to seek guidance.

I sent an email regarding this matter, to the league and await their reply. While at practice today, a coach from another level (he coached Featherweight a few years ago) explained what he knew to be the rule change. Apparently, because there is no rush, the league felt it was an unfair advantage to allow the receiving team to drop back enough players to form a wall/wedge. Since instruction and safety are the keys to this level, I buy his thinking. Heck, that was why I was dropping back my extra back in the first place - our blocking needs work. If I hear differently from the league I will share their rationale with the board. Our TCYFL encourages feedback each Spring so they can make the rules more conducive to youth play in our area. I'm sure some of you will have insight.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Apparently, because there is no rush, the league felt it was an unfair advantage to allow the receiving team to drop back enough players to form a wall/wedge.

In our case it's not that, because neither team is allowed to cross their line of scrimmage, and the ball is dead where it comes into any player's possession, the spot being the farthest point toward R's end the ball was touched at (if no touchback). I tell our players spread out to field the ball that knocking it forward is as good as catching it. They just want to limit the number of players we have back there to make them cover more of the field each.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In our case it's not that, because neither team is allowed to cross their line of scrimmage, and the ball is dead where it comes into any player's possession, the spot being the farthest point toward R's end the ball was touched at (if no touchback). I tell our players spread out to field the ball that knocking it forward is as good as catching it. They just want to limit the number of players we have back there to make them cover more of the field each.

Here is part of what I received from a rule interpreter this morning.

Mike, your question was addressed a few years ago when the rule was changed to prohibit the rush of a punter at FW level ball. It is felt that since the defense cannot move until the ball is kicked, the receiving team will present a dangerous situation by presenting a static wall or wedge. Limiting the number of receivers also limits the likelihood of full speed collisions, much like what the NFL is doing by moving up the kickoff line.

He added

With regards to the assessment of penalty, it was misapplied. At FW ball, the play should never have begun. Adjusting the players during this illegal formation has been discussed with officiating crews many times. We may have to do it again. I hope this helps and good luck in the playoffs.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Here is part of what I received from a rule interpreter this morning.

You might suggest, to your interpreter, explaining the logic behind this and every "local" rule as points of emphasis to your coaches, might reduce the number of times you need to deal with it with officials.

[bcl1127]

What your interp said about the play not starting is what I was mentioning earlier. I don't care if it is week 1 or the champ games with this level I would make sure that they are 100% lined up correctly on these punts rather than throw a flag...

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I presume the notation U10 means "Under age 10", and at this level "local rules" likely have either some instructional or safety logic behind them.

Frequently they're "instructional" in the sense of reducing the amount of instruction the coaches have to do. In many cases the organiz'n allows us very little practice time, so they simplify the game by taking out certain situations we'd otherwise have to prepare for. You see the same thing in college & pro all star games.