Punt Return Penalty

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I presume the notation U10 means "Under age 10", and at this level "local rules" likely have either some instructional or safety logic behind them.

Frequently they're "instructional" in the sense of reducing the amount of instruction the coaches have to do. In many cases the organiz'n allows us very little practice time, so they simplify the game by taking out certain situations we'd otherwise have to prepare for. You see the same thing in college & pro all star games.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Apparently, because there is no rush, the league felt it was an unfair advantage to allow the receiving team to drop back enough players to form a wall/wedge.

In our case it's not that, because neither team is allowed to cross their line of scrimmage, and the ball is dead where it comes into any player's possession, the spot being the farthest point toward R's end the ball was touched at (if no touchback). I tell our players spread out to field the ball that knocking it forward is as good as catching it. They just want to limit the number of players we have back there to make them cover more of the field each.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In our case it's not that, because neither team is allowed to cross their line of scrimmage, and the ball is dead where it comes into any player's possession, the spot being the farthest point toward R's end the ball was touched at (if no touchback). I tell our players spread out to field the ball that knocking it forward is as good as catching it. They just want to limit the number of players we have back there to make them cover more of the field each.

Here is part of what I received from a rule interpreter this morning.

Mike, your question was addressed a few years ago when the rule was changed to prohibit the rush of a punter at FW level ball. It is felt that since the defense cannot move until the ball is kicked, the receiving team will present a dangerous situation by presenting a static wall or wedge. Limiting the number of receivers also limits the likelihood of full speed collisions, much like what the NFL is doing by moving up the kickoff line.

He added

With regards to the assessment of penalty, it was misapplied. At FW ball, the play should never have begun. Adjusting the players during this illegal formation has been discussed with officiating crews many times. We may have to do it again. I hope this helps and good luck in the playoffs.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Here is part of what I received from a rule interpreter this morning.

You might suggest, to your interpreter, explaining the logic behind this and every "local" rule as points of emphasis to your coaches, might reduce the number of times you need to deal with it with officials.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by ajmc

You might suggest, to your interpreter, explaining the logic behind this and every "local" rule as points of emphasis to your coaches, might reduce the number of times you need to deal with it with officials.

You read my mind! My response email said that very thing. Coaches need to be aware and officials consistent and informed.

[Rich]

I believe that if I'm going to take the money of a program, it's up to me to know the rules.

Youth football programs have added so many local rules that the game (in some instances) hardly resembles football.

I'd rather stay home.

At least with your league, it sounds like if I asked for the rules in advance, I could get them.

Not the same everywhere and that's what's frustrating, as if those little stickers on the helmet should tell me that the player can't run the ball or that the line backs have to be 4 yards off the line. Why would I know such things when nobody provides written copies of the rules?

[CT1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why would I know such things when nobody provides written copies of the rules?

Or they change them mid-season & forget to notify us.

[bcl1127]

What your interp said about the play not starting is what I was mentioning earlier. I don't care if it is week 1 or the champ games with this level I would make sure that they are 100% lined up correctly on these punts rather than throw a flag...

[MikeStrybel]

I agree and mentioned it earlier. Thanks again for noting how being proactive at this level will help keep these players around for football in the future. Enjoy your games this weekend.

Mike

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not the same everywhere and that's what's frustrating, as if those little stickers on the helmet should tell me that the player can't run the ball or that the line backs have to be 4 yards off the line. Why would I know such things when nobody provides written copies of the rules?

It is also not like everyone that works a game at one of these leagues is working a game normally in that league. It is not totally surprising that a day before or the night before someone is asked to cover one of these games. It is possible that officials did not even know anything about a local rule or knew there something they needed to address. It is usually when you get to the field or get to that situation and then you find out there is some special rule you have to enforce.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is also not like everyone that works a game at one of these leagues is working a game normally in that league. It is not totally surprising that a day before or the night before someone is asked to cover one of these games. It is possible that officials did not even know anything about a local rule or knew there something they needed to address. It is usually when you get to the field or get to that situation and then you find out there is some special rule you have to enforce.

Peace

Which is why it doesn't bother me at all when I miss one of these weird rules. I do the best I can, but if they think I can see if a LB is 4 yards off or 3 yards off with 3 officials on the field, they're crazy.

Typical "let's make up rules for the good of the kids" stupidity. Reminds me of all the house rules that local Little Leagues try to put in place and then complain when we don't enforce them in the tournament.

This is why I *rarely* work youth games and only if they're close to the house and the teams are really desperate.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Which is why it doesn't bother me at all when I miss one of these weird rules. I do the best I can, but if they think I can see if a LB is 4 yards off or 3 yards off with 3 officials on the field, they're crazy.

Typical "let's make up rules for the good of the kids" stupidity. Reminds me of all the house rules that local Little Leagues try to put in place and then complain when we don't enforce them in the tournament.

This is why I *rarely* work youth games and only if they're close to the house and the teams are really desperate.

I agree and one of the reasons I am not available for these games either. Then again Saturdays and Sundays have either other football games going on or personal things I would rather do.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree and one of the reasons I am not available for these games either. Then again Saturdays and Sundays have either other football games going on or personal things I would rather do. Peace

Several years ago I was assigned to work a local Div III JV game on a Wednesday afternoon. The Referee assigned had been the Referee the previous Saturday at Notre Dame. Before the game I asked why he was assigned to this contest, he replied, "to get in snaps to be ready for the coming weekend".

Youth football can certainly be a challenge, but presents enormous opportunity to hone "people" skills, that are so critical at higher levels, as well as gaining experience in dealing with and responding to, a much higher probability of totally unexpected situations.

Beyond that, you might even help direct some players, or even young coaches, to paths of behavior you may be happy they took, at some future point at a higher level of competition. Officiating allows us to take a lot away from the game, at different points the game needs us to pay the piper.

[JRutledge]

ajmc,

Availability has little to do with not wanting to see plays. I do not know about you, but I have things going on with officiating during the week that has nothing to do with football officiating and have to answer to more people if I am not available to them. I teach a basketball class for over a month in the fall, I am a President of basketball division that meets every week and I must attend and I try to attend meetings of a couple other associations I belong to during the week as well. Maybe that D1 official does not work other sports, but me and others do. Also around here D1 JV games are on Sundays and Mondays, I could not work all of them if I wanted to and I have worked a couple of those games this past year including last Sunday. And I do not have children or direct family obligations either like many of my fellow officials do. I know guys that claim they would not have a wife anymore if they worked most days of the week no matter what the sport, our families are more important. Not everyone's availability is based on not wanting to work a level. Much of my availability is based on what is going on my church and what I do in college on weekends. I could make more money if officiating was my only obligation, but for me it is not. Just like this weekend where I am going to celebrate a family event on Saturday and I have a college basketball staff meeting on Sunday morning and I will be gone most of the tonight working post season football. All of this while missing my Cardinals play in Game 7. Everyone cannot be everywhere.

Peace

[bcl1127]

Now that this has taken a turn towards why work youth games, I'll tell you why I do it:

There are a couple of reasons, first and foremost, I enjoy being on the football field. Be it a Friday night Varsity contest, or the youth games I work on the weekends, it is something I love doing, and seeing the season is so short, I do not turn down the opportunity to be out there.

Second, I enjoy helping the kids and coaches enjoy the game. I cannot tell you how many times in the past two weeks I've had a coach come up and tell me "thanks for helping me with that illegal shift problem in week two, thanks to you the kids learned how to set correctly" or something to that effect. I coach my son's baseball team, and I know that these guys are just dad's out there so they might not know all the rules, so being proactive and helping makes me feel good.

Third, the assignor for the league I am working in is on my HS crew, so helping out a friend put the best possible officials out on the field is something that I would also do.

Last - it is a good way to get to know other officials and see how they work. I have met people at association meetings and what not, but working with them and seeing how they interact with folks is really something that you cannot get anywhere other than on the field. Who knows when that connection might be something that helps out in the future. Getting a small bump in income during the fall before Christmas is nice as well.

As with everything, there are also minuses to working these games -

Working 6 or 7 games on usually less than ideal fields can be a pain (literally)

It is mentally draining to listen to the Parents and spectators all day yelling about NFL rules to you on the fields.

It does take away from my family time. This is something that really is the worst part, but it is for 12 weeks in the fall and I do not work any other sports, so my family is fine with it, plus they come out to the field and watch and enjoy the atmosphere most weeks.

Some of the attitudes of these young kids and parents is disturbing. to see young kids out there swearing and with such huge chips on their shoulders makes me very sad. Also seeing how some parents push their kids to the point of crying is a shame. But what this does it help me to see this behavior and in reality makes me a better Dad, in my opinion.

So all in all there are positives and negatives, but I just enjoy being on the football field, so I dedicate my weekends and Friday nights in the fall to Football.