Helmet to Helmet contact

[john_faz]

On a free kick return, I saw a K player and a R player headed full speed directly for each other. Right before impact, they both turned their heads and smacked helmet to helmet. Would this be considered illegal helmet contact? If so, who would you throw the flag against?

I didn't call anything because it seemd as if neither player was leading with the helmet. It was just they turned to the same side and smacked each other's (loudly) helmets.

Any thoughts?

[JRutledge]

If both players were not using their helmets as a weapon to hit each other, then no I would not call a foul. Again this is where judgment comes into play. We must keep in mind that helmet contact is expected on some level, so the fact that player touched helmets is not always a bad thing. It is going to happen, it is when they use their helmets to punish or to make the hit harder this is a problem.

Peace

[bigjohn]

CONTACT BOTH TO AND WITH THE HELMET
Over the years the NFHS Football Rules Committee has repeatedly emphasized the need
to keep the HEAD OUT OF FOOTBALL, due to the potential for catastrophic head and neck
injuries. Some form of helmet review or illegal helmet contact emphasis has been specifically
targeted by the committee in its publications for review by coaches and officials 22
times since 1980. In the past few years, all levels of football have increased the focus on
decreasing the risk of concussion, and it is widely conceded that one of the biggest steps
in this effort is to eliminate direct helmet-to-helmet contact and any other contact both by
and to the helmet.
Any initiation of contact with the helmet is illegal; therefore, there must be a focus on
enforcing the existing rules. This year, the committee is taking the step to emphasize all
types of illegal helmet contact:
• Spearing – an act by an offensive or defensive player who initiates contact against any
opponent with the top of his helmet.
• Face Tackling – an act by a defensive player who initiates contact with a runner with
the front of his helmet.
• Butt Blocking – an act by an offensive or defensive player who initiates contact against
an opponent who is not a runner with the front of his helmet.
The committee is encouraging a renewed emphasis by both coaches and officials on
other types of contact with and to the helmet, which are prohibited by the existing three
rules cited above, as well as the unnecessary roughness provisions of Rule 9, which
include:
• Blows to the Head by the Defender – Any act by a defensive player using the hand(s)
to slap the opponent’s head is illegal. A blocker may not initiate contact with his arm or
hand against an opponent above the opponent’s shoulder.
• Initiating Contact to the Head – It is illegal for a member of either team to use any other
part of the body or equipment to initiate contact to the head. Contact to the helmet of
another player could be one of the three specific illegal helmet contact fouls, or it could
also be a personal foul for unnecessary roughness as defined by Rule 9-4-3g. This is
not limited to acts by the defense (such as the defensive back making the “big hit” on
the receiver, or the linebacker making the blow against a back out of the backfield), but
such prohibition against contact to the helmet extends to all players on all parts of the
field. When in doubt, it should be a foul.
• Helmet-to-Helmet Contact – Particularly in light of the recent RIO data findings, initiated
acts of helmet-to-helmet contact must be penalized when they occur in contests,
and must be corrected immediately if observed in practice. Contact initiated by one
2011 NFHS Football Rules Page 84
player with the helmet to the helmet of another player could be one of the three specific
illegal helmet contact fouls, or it could also be a personal foul for unnecessary roughness
as defined by Rule 9-4-3g. While inadvertent contact between helmets may occur
in close line play or as players are closely engaged, all involved must be aware when
the proverbial “line has been crossed,” and an illegal act has occurred. When in doubt,
it should be ruled a foul.
• Making Initial Contact with the Defender while Running with the Head Down – This
act by the runner lowering his helmet to spear an opponent is not legal per Rule 9-4-3i,
but needs special emphasis to help with risk minimization.
The illegal acts noted above have no place in the game, and the committee believes that
renewed emphasis on getting illegal acts out of the game will improve player safety. When
in doubt, these acts should be viewed as illegal.

[CT1]

The salient part of the above "cut & paste" is:

"While inadvertent contact between helmets may occur in close line play or as players are closely engaged, all involved must be aware when the proverbial “line has been crossed,” and an illegal act has occurred. When in doubt, it should be ruled a foul."

Your play seems to fall into the "inadvertent" category.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

CONTACT BOTH TO AND WITH THE HELMET
Over the years the NFHS Football Rules Committee has repeatedly emphasized the need
to keep the HEAD OUT OF FOOTBALL, due to the potential for catastrophic head and neck
injuries. Some form of helmet review or illegal helmet contact emphasis has been specifically
targeted by the committee in its publications for review by coaches and officials 22
times since 1980. In the past few years, all levels of football have increased the focus on
decreasing the risk of concussion, and it is widely conceded that one of the biggest steps
in this effort is to eliminate direct helmet-to-helmet contact and any other contact both by
and to the helmet.
Any initiation of contact with the helmet is illegal; therefore, there must be a focus on
enforcing the existing rules. This year, the committee is taking the step to emphasize all
types of illegal helmet contact:
• Spearing – an act by an offensive or defensive player who initiates contact against any
opponent with the top of his helmet.
• Face Tackling – an act by a defensive player who initiates contact with a runner with
the front of his helmet.
• Butt Blocking – an act by an offensive or defensive player who initiates contact against
an opponent who is not a runner with the front of his helmet.
The committee is encouraging a renewed emphasis by both coaches and officials on
other types of contact with and to the helmet, which are prohibited by the existing three
rules cited above, as well as the unnecessary roughness provisions of Rule 9, which
include:
• Blows to the Head by the Defender – Any act by a defensive player using the hand(s)
to slap the opponent’s head is illegal. A blocker may not initiate contact with his arm or
hand against an opponent above the opponent’s shoulder.
• Initiating Contact to the Head – It is illegal for a member of either team to use any other
part of the body or equipment to initiate contact to the head. Contact to the helmet of
another player could be one of the three specific illegal helmet contact fouls, or it could
also be a personal foul for unnecessary roughness as defined by Rule 9-4-3g. This is
not limited to acts by the defense (such as the defensive back making the “big hit” on
the receiver, or the linebacker making the blow against a back out of the backfield), but
such prohibition against contact to the helmet extends to all players on all parts of the
field. When in doubt, it should be a foul.
• Helmet-to-Helmet Contact – Particularly in light of the recent RIO data findings, initiated
acts of helmet-to-helmet contact must be penalized when they occur in contests,
and must be corrected immediately if observed in practice. Contact initiated by one
2011 NFHS Football Rules Page 84
player with the helmet to the helmet of another player could be one of the three specific
illegal helmet contact fouls, or it could also be a personal foul for unnecessary roughness
as defined by Rule 9-4-3g. While inadvertent contact between helmets may occur
in close line play or as players are closely engaged, all involved must be aware when
the proverbial “line has been crossed,” and an illegal act has occurred. When in doubt,
it should be ruled a foul.
• Making Initial Contact with the Defender while Running with the Head Down – This
act by the runner lowering his helmet to spear an opponent is not legal per Rule 9-4-3i,
but needs special emphasis to help with risk minimization.
The illegal acts noted above have no place in the game, and the committee believes that
renewed emphasis on getting illegal acts out of the game will improve player safety. When
in doubt, these acts should be viewed as illegal.

Take your cut and past act and officials bashing to another forum.

[bigjohn]

If there was no doubt, why ask the question?

I just don't see anything in this POE that says helmet must be used as a weapon!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

If there was no doubt, why ask the question?

I just don't see anything in this POE that says helmet must be used as a weapon!

And there is nothing in the POE that says all contact with the helmet is illegal either. So what is your point?

Peace

[bigjohn]

Helmet as a weapon is old terminology. Just call it when it happens guys and I will be happy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Helmet as a weapon is old terminology. Just call it when it happens guys and I will be happy.

No. I will call it when the rules are violated, not just when you think it happens. And if you read your own "copy and paste" job then you would realize that. But then again, different day, different site, same BJ.

Peace

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Helmet as a weapon is old terminology. Just call it when it happens guys and I will be happy.

Unless it happens when you're coaching and it's against your team....in that case, what do you have....? Off-setting penalties, if both ball carrier and defender are possible guilty parties. Use some common sense.

"While inadvertent contact between helmets may occur
in close line play or as players are closely engaged, all involved must be aware when
the proverbial “line has been crossed,” and an illegal act has occurred."
MEANING: If the ball carrier and defender (in the official's opinion) square each other up from 5 or 10 yards apart and come at each other like rams striking their heads together, a foul has occurred. (I.E: Judgement call)

Maybe you should troll a badminton rules thread.

[Rob4092xx]

I am a newbie so this is probably a real dumb question, but.....it B tackles A by the helmet, is this Illegal Helmet Contact?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I just don't see anything in this POE that says helmet must be used as a weapon!

And there's nothing in the OP that says the helmet was used as a weapon.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Rob4092xx

I am a newbie so this is probably a real dumb question, but.....it B tackles A by the helmet, is this Illegal Helmet Contact?

Not as long as he doesn't grab the face mask or any helmet opening.