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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 14, 2003, 06:31pm
Adam
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We all know that in the NFL a player can not touch or run into the kicker while kicking. What I am wondering is when is the kicker elibable to be touched or tackled by the opposing team? I have always thought it was when the kick was over and the kicker brought his kicking foot down and touched it to the ground.
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Old Tue Jan 14, 2003, 07:56pm
JMN JMN is offline
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Don't know about NFL, but NFHS...

NFHS rules:

R cannot run into or block, tackle, or charge the kicker except when:

a. Contact is unavoidable because it is uncertain that a kick will be made
b. R touches the kick near the kicker and contact is unavoidable
c.Contact is slight and partially caused by movement of the kicker
d. R is blocked into kicker by K

Each of these is a JUDGEMENT CALL by the R. The rules don't say anything about the kicking foot on the ground.


As an R, I'm looking for vulnerability of the kicker and any contact. If R hits K, most often I've got a call of some sort. I'll toss the flag unless I see R touch the ball first. If so, I give the "tip" signal so everyone knows the ball was touched. I can't say that I've ever seen K move into R and negate a foul due to his movement.
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Old Tue Jan 14, 2003, 08:49pm
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Running into or roughing the kicker can occur between the time the ball is kicked and when the kicker has a chance to return to an upright position. Thanks to the folks on this forum and Rogers Redding that is perfectly clear to me.

If you are talking about the Pittsburgh-Tennessee game, the kicker was completing but had not completed his motion, therefore, he was still a kicker.

The question I always ask when the kicker is contacted, is he (the kicker) in position to contact the opposing player. If not, flag it!
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Old Tue Jan 14, 2003, 09:02pm
Adam
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Yes I was refering to the Steeler/Titan game. Thanks for the reply.

I was wondering because in the game tape the kickers foot touched the ground after the kick and then defender slid into him. It was a very close call and I decided to try and find the "official rule. Thank you all again.

I bookmarked this site becuase it seems like a very informative place.
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Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 08:06am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
Yes I was refering to the Steeler/Titan game. Thanks for the reply.

I was wondering because in the game tape the kickers foot touched the ground after the kick and then defender slid into him. It was a very close call and I decided to try and find the "official rule. Thank you all again.

I bookmarked this site becuase it seems like a very informative place.
Welcome to the site. Are you an official or "just a fan"?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 10:23am
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Here's the rule -

Rule 12 – Article 6


No defensive player may run into or rough a kicker who kicks from behind his line unless such contact:

a) Is incidental to and after he has touched the kick in flight
b) Is caused by the kicker’s own motions
c) Occurs during a quick kick
d) Occurs during a kick or after a run behind the line
e) Occurs after the kicker recovers a loose ball on the ground or
f) Is caused because a defender is blocked into the kicker

Supplemental Notes –

1) Avoiding the kicker is the primary responsibility of the defensive players if they do not touch the kick
2) Any contact with the kicker by a single defensive player who has not touched the kick is running into the kicker
3) Any unnecessary roughness committed by the defensive players is roughing the kicker. Severity of contact and potential for injury are to be considered
4) When two defensive players are making a bona fide attempt to block a kick from scrimmage (punt, drop kick, and/or place kick) and one of them runs into the kicker after the kick has left the kicker’s foot at the same instant the second player blocks the kick, the foul for running into the kicker shall not be enforced, unless in the judgment of the referee, the player running into the kicker was clearly the direct cause of the kick being blocked.
5) If in the judgment of the referee any of the above action is innecessary roughness, the penalty for roughing the kickershall be enforced from the previous spot as a foul during the kick.


I couldn't find anything in there saying 'unless its near the end of the game and the coach might get really mad if you call it'.
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Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 10:54am
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OK. The NFL grading scale is as follows:

7 - Correct call on a rare play (Franco Harris Immaculate Reception)

6 - Correct major call (Pass interference)

5 - Correct minor call

4 - Correct call but poor mechanics

3 - Inaccurate call

There is a 1 and 2 but don't have the details.

Anyway, rate the call of referee Ron Blum on the running into the kicker call in the Tennessee - Pittsburgh game.
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Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 12:21pm
Adam
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No I am not a Referee I am just a fan of football. I grew up watching the Steelers in the 60s and 70s and still love the team today. Since I now live in California I follow the 49ers and I am what you might call a closet Raider fan but don't tell anyone. lol
The worst thing is my wife is a Patriot fan. It made for some very interesting times at my house these last two years.


Personally I did not agree with the call at the end of the Steeler/Titan game because it looked to me like the kick was over and the kicker took a step towards the defender. I thought the kicker tried to get touched. It was as you say a judgement call by the Referee.
I agree even less with the actions of Bill Cowher after the game. I understand his frustration with the call but I was embarassed as a Steeler fan by his actions. He should have at least gone and congratulated Jeff Fisher and the Titans.


Another question:

Can a kicker be penalized for trying to be touched or faking a hit by a defender? It seems like unsportsmanlike conduct but I could be reaching here. probably just sour grapes. lol

[Edited by Adam on Jan 15th, 2003 at 11:25 AM]
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam


Another question:

Can a kicker be penalized for trying to be touched or faking a hit by a defender? It seems like unsportsmanlike conduct but I could be reaching here. probably just sour grapes. lol

[Edited by Adam on Jan 15th, 2003 at 11:25 AM]
It could easily fall under making a travesty of the game.

My response to a kicker who gets knocked down by the wind is quietly walk over to him and say, "Hollywood, the camera was off."
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 01:23pm
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We’ve been skirting a few issues here that I think are important. NFL may be different but under NF rules this kick was not over. The kick doesn’t end until a player gains possession of the ball or it becomes dead by rule. A player isn’t a kicker until he has legally kicked the ball and he continues to be the kicker until he has had a reasonable opportunity to regain his balance. The fact that his kicking foot has touched the ground after he kicked the ball has no bearing on his status as a kicker, when the kick ends or when he can be contacted. To me the foul called in this game was a classic example of running into the kicker. IMHO
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Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 06:07pm
JMN JMN is offline
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New Official???

Adam,

welcome to the board.

Hey, if you're in Northern CA and interested in becoming an official, I know some folks that can help you.

Nice to have a fan on the board with an objective view.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 15, 2003, 11:35pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
No I am not a Referee I am just a fan of football. I grew up watching the Steelers in the 60s and 70s and still love the team today. Since I now live in California I follow the 49ers and I am what you might call a closet Raider fan but don't tell anyone. lol
The worst thing is my wife is a Patriot fan. It made for some very interesting times at my house these last two years.

Adam,

Time the cross over the Bay like Jerry Rice and make the Raiders your team.
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
"Another question:

Can a kicker be penalized for trying to be touched or faking a hit by a defender? It seems like unsportsmanlike conduct but I could be reaching here. probably just sour grapes. "
REPLY: In NCAA rules, yes, there is such a rule.
NCAA 9-1-3b: "A kicker or holder simulating being roughed or run into by a defensive player commits an unsportsmanlike act (A.R. 9-1-3-V). However, I think you might only see it called if there is no contact whatsoever, and the kicker/holder takes a dive. Even then, most referees are just going to ignore it. It's not the kind of call an official is looking to make. The Nedney thing at the end of the Pitt/Tenn game would not get such a flag in an NCAA game. There is no such specific rule in Federation.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 04:31pm
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NFL

NFL also prohibits the "acting" jobs by a kicker. 12-3-1-p

It is a UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT foul, 15 yards (from previous spot unless ball was dead). Can eject for "flagrant" act.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2003, 06:39pm
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In my opinion, the Steelers-Titans call by Blum was a bad call because contact was slight and did not present a safety issue for the kicker (again, my opinion). Why wasn't the running into the kicker called in the Eagles-Bucs game? The contact with the kicker was much more obvious in that game, yet there was no flag?




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