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Old Fri Jan 10, 2003, 10:02am
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bounces you say ?

K 4/10 on the R40. K14's punt is rolling near the R10. R26 attempts to block K75. R26 bounces off of K75 and into the football at the R9. K27 recovers the ball at the R7. Clock?

[Edited by James Neil on Jan 10th, 2003 at 09:08 AM]
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Old Fri Jan 10, 2003, 10:47am
JMN JMN is offline
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JM,

Seems straightforward (which worries me). Assuming NFHS.

R26's touch of the ball makes it fair game for K. It's his responsibility to stay away from the ball. K's ball on the R7, 1st and goal. Clock starts on the snap.

Complexities would arise if R26 had signaled for a fair catch or if R26 were blocked into the ball, but I see none of this occurring on this play.
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Old Fri Jan 10, 2003, 11:35am
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Unhappy

OK. Straight forward, I think. Since HE was blocking, and NOT blocked into the ball, is it not the receivers responsibility to stay away from the ball???

This being said, and nothing else (fair catch signal, blah blah blah....) R26 takes a seat at the end of bench (behind the water boy) for even being close to the ball, K's ball at the 7. Clock begins at snap.

This makes me nervous because I could be totally wrong on the blocked into the ball idea. Since R26 blocked into the K player, has he given up the right to be bounced into the ball? Maybe he should pick on someone his own size.

Assuming I am right about the blocking thing: what if R 26 blocks K76 simoltaniously and he ends up hitting the ball????? Does the rule establish that if the R is blocking, free game?

Now I am tripple questioning myself, and now I am not sure. My rule books are not wiht me

I stand by my original call: K ball at the 7. Clock at snap.
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Old Fri Jan 10, 2003, 12:49pm
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Re: bounces you say ?

Quote:
Originally posted by James Neil
K 4/10 on the R40. K14's punt is rolling near the R10. R26 attempts to block K75. R26 bounces off of K75 and into the football at the R9. K27 recovers the ball at the R7. Clock?

[Edited by James Neil on Jan 10th, 2003 at 09:08 AM]
NFHS. Clock stops on the recovery. It will restart on the snap regardless according to 3-4-3c "Either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick."

That would not have been true before the current rule was enacted in 1996.
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Old Fri Jan 10, 2003, 03:35pm
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It does seem too easy but it's K's ball on the 7. Clock starts on snap.
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Old Sat Jan 11, 2003, 03:32pm
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Re: Re: bounces you say ?

[



NFHS. Clock stops on the recovery. It will restart on the snap regardless according to 3-4-3c "Either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick."

[/B][/QUOTE]

Well I know that Ed LOL, I just wanted the guys to bone up on their clock mechanics 8^).
I thought this play was interesting because I’ve heard two trains of thoughts on it,
6-2-4 Talks about K catching or recovering a kick provided such kick has been touched by R. it says such touching is ignored if it was caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball . In this play K didn’t do either, R initiated the contact with K. and the touching was the direct result of his bouncing of K.
My Mentor says “ the impetus of the contact was R’s. You bounce , you pay , K’s ball “
My association VP says “. While the federation book is not clear, forced touching is still no touching. B26 was forced into the ball as a result of his block. R’s ball”
So I have two interpretations from two very knowledgeable officials. At this point I’m on the fence.
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Old Sat Jan 11, 2003, 03:55pm
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If only we had 'game sense'. Then we'd be able to figure out anything.
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Old Mon Jan 13, 2003, 08:03am
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Re: bounces you say ?

Quote:
Originally posted by James Neil
K 4/10 on the R40. K14's punt is rolling near the R10. R26 attempts to block K75. R26 bounces off of K75 and into the football at the R9. K27 recovers the ball at the R7. Clock?

[Edited by James Neil on Jan 10th, 2003 at 09:08 AM]
I've read many of the other posts before replying to this one. I'd say that the ball belongs to K because he was not blocked into the ball by K. This really comes down to semantics. Was R touched/blocked by K or was K touched/blocked by R? Someone posted the rule above and the question we need to ask is, "Was K pushed into the ball by R?" -- Not "Was there any contact between K and R?". In my opinion, the rule is there to prevent K from getting a cheap turnover by pushing an R player into the ball.

I may be way off base here and really looking forward to what everyone else has to say.



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Old Mon Jan 13, 2003, 11:50am
JMN JMN is offline
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Agreed. I see where it gets sticky!

So what would we do if:

1) R22 is blocking K19 at the R20. The ball takes a bad bounce away from the B goal line at the R15 and towards the original LOS. It hits R22 in the back as he is blocking K. What do we have if K recovers the ball?

2) Now as the ball is bouncing towards the B goal line, it is surrounded by K getting ready to down the ball. R misjudges the roll and as it comes towards him, is blocked (legally) by K into the ball. K recovers the ball. What do we have?
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Old Mon Jan 13, 2003, 01:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JMN
Agreed. I see where it gets sticky!

So what would we do if:

1) R22 is blocking K19 at the R20. The ball takes a bad bounce away from the B goal line at the R15 and towards the original LOS. It hits R22 in the back as he is blocking K. What do we have if K recovers the ball?

This is a tuff one and it looks like I'm going to have to climb off my fence. A play like this demands that we use our judgment to determine the cause of the touching . The rule (6-2-4) doesn’t say to ignore the touching if R is blocking. It says to” ignore it if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball”
Just the fact that R was blocking at the time doesn’t necessarily mean the touching was caused by K pushing or blocking him. IMHO ….I’d probably award the ball to K on this play.
BTW …its plays like this that they pay us the “Big Bucks” (and Derock the “Really Big Bucks” ;^)

[/B][/QUOTE]
2) Now as the ball is bouncing towards the B goal line, it is surrounded by K getting ready to down the ball. R misjudges the roll and as it comes towards him, is blocked (legally) by K into the ball. K recovers the ball. What do we have? [/B][/QUOTE]
This one sounds like a text book “ignore the touching” R’s ball 1/10 clock on the snap!
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Old Mon Jan 13, 2003, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JMN
Agreed. I see where it gets sticky!

So what would we do if:

1) R22 is blocking K19 at the R20. The ball takes a bad bounce away from the B goal line at the R15 and towards the original LOS. It hits R22 in the back as he is blocking K. What do we have if K recovers the ball?
I'd say it depends. Was R pushed into the ball because K was moving him backwards or did the ball simply hit him? Good questions and excellent discussion!(Where's that tounge sticking out icon?


Quote:

2) Now as the ball is bouncing towards the B goal line, it is surrounded by K getting ready to down the ball. R misjudges the roll and as it comes towards him, is blocked (legally) by K into the ball. K recovers the ball. What do we have?
I'd ignore the touching if R was blocked into the ball -- even if he misjudged the direction. The ball is known to take some funny bounces.

I guess I'd phrase the rule this way: If R is moved toward the ball by a block and touches the ball, ignore the touching by R. If R is moving away from the ball and it touches him, the team in possession at the end of the down is awarded a new series. My problem comes in what to do with a stationary player engaged in blocking.....

Anyone else care to chime in? Please.... someone..... save you my sorry butt?




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