Coaches on the Field

[nvfoa15]

Ed,

I can't believe that a JH coach would have anything to say about an official's evaluation. Down here in the south the only coach that got to evaluate (an internal one by the Association and longer done) was a varsity coach. Anybody less than that didn't get the time of day with regard to officials evaluations.

[Bubba10Dara]

I am always patient with coaches regarding them being on the field. I know they get caught up in the game and lose track of where they are. However, when the coach tells me I am to worried about the sideline and not the game that is when the request stops and next time it is a sideline warning then 5 yards, then 15, usually doesn't get that far though. Sideline warning gets his attention and they abide by the rule.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by nvfoa15
Ed,

I can't believe that a JH coach would have anything to say about an official's evaluation. Down here in the south the only coach that got to evaluate (an internal one by the Association and longer done) was a varsity coach. Anybody less than that didn't get the time of day with regard to officials evaluations.

Believe it!

I submitted a proposal to the board a few years ago that evaluation for promotion should belong to varsity officials who may one day have to work with that official. That went nowhere.

The result of JH and JV coaches evaluations being used for promotion is, at best, a joke. JH coaches typically have as many as 40 to 50 players to control and you can only imagine how much time to look at officials. And JV is not a lot better. And, for the most part they don't even tape the games for review.

So when the official makes it to varsity and the varsity coach complains about performance, who promoted them? Your lower level coaches.

[ABoselli]

KWH,

What did you guys put in place of the coaches ratings? We seem to be stuck with them in our chapter as no one can think of a better solution. We really aren't able to sit a supervisor at all the games to rate guys, so the only fall back is the coaches, who, don't always rate (not high on their TO DO list) and sometimes rate inconsistently (unfairly?)

[KWH]

ABoselli;

We use ratings from our observers (retired officials that still want to be involved) and other members of the crew for that game.
Lower level officials are reviewed only by the other officials on the crew.
We also have three years of mandatory classroom training classes for our new officials: First year (2 hours a week), Second Year (1 hour per week) and Third year/ Transfer officials (1 hour per week). All new (1st thru third year) officials are evaluated on every game they work.
We used coaches evaluations for approximatly 20 years. We gave the coaches the evaluation cards in the pregame. In the last few years we got less than 25% returned and those were generally from losing coaches with a negative attitude,So our board elected to eliminate them.
Currently our commisioner makes all the decisions on game assinments, advancement and playoff assingments based on observations (by observers) and recommendations of peer officials.
Is it the best? Probably not! But it is working for us at this time.

[ABoselli]

We do the ratings of 1st through 3rd year guys by active (varsity) officials as well, it's the rating of the actives that gets sticky.

I'm afraid we wouldn't have enough retired, available guys to rate us, hence any ratings we would get might be anecdotal at best. We have a little over 100 officials in our chapter working 15-25 games (total varsity) each week in the leagues we service.

I'm glad to see, though, that somebody ridded themselves of the coach ratings dilema.

[sportswriter]

Originally posted by don16954
We also told the coaches that if they did not move back when asked by wing official, then sideline warnings or other appropriate action would be taken.

I think that folks are missing something here - safety. For all involved. If a play flows off the field on the sideline, you should have space. Without space, you have opposition players running into each other's team on the bench, mayhem and ugliness.

The best thing I ever did to get a coach to listen to me when I wanted space on the sideline was simply go where I was supposed to go on a turnover. I ran the head coach over, because he was on *my* sideline. He never bothered me again. If I had been tripped or knocked over, I'd have dinged him with an unsportsmanlike. (This was the team's first-ever game, so I didn't want to be a complete *******.)

[mikesears]

Originally posted by don16954
Tom Cook,

We have the same problem in Illinois. The coaches are the evaluators and their ratings determine promotion and playoff games. All coaches are to rate the next day. However, it is usually the coach who is penalized or who lost a game who typically rates, and rates you for that one call rather than the whole game. This past year we had two officials going for promotion, and they were somewhat tentative to throw certain flags because of the effect they knew it would have on their ratings and chances for promotion.playoff games.
Our wing officials ask the coaches which three are allowed in the box for the game, and advise the coaches they are in control of the sideline. The opposing coach will keep remindeing the opposite wing that his partner is letting the other coach on the field during the game. So, the wings both us the out-of-sight theory as well well that his sideline, this is mine.
Really do not know if there is a good solution when the coaches are you evaluators.

Dave Gannaway came and spoke to our association several weeks ago and spoke a little about this topic. He stated that it isn't a RATING system, it is an EVALUATION system and that is why the wording for the system was changed this year. He said coaches can't be expected to know how well a crew performed, but coaches should be able to objectively decide if they would like to see officials at certain levels.

To me, ratings and evaluations are the same thing and changing the wording doesn't help matters.

I think we should get coaches completely out of the system. The question then is, "HOW?"

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

Tom Cook,

So you only officiate to get a big game in the tournament?
I'll flag a coach evertime hes on the field, it doesn't matter that hes going to evaluate me or not. My wingmen are taught to do their job, apply the rules and not worry about getting a bad evaluation for flagging a coach.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

I would never let a coaches evaluation of me hold off on throwing a rag for a penalty. Thats like turning your back on a crime. If the coach is out on the field , talk to him, tell him hes going to be flagged. If he ignores you flag him. Last year I asked a coach twice to stay of the field, I was the linesmen in this three man jv game. He just wouldn't listen, the third time he backed into were I was standing on the sidelines. I pulled my flag and very calmly reached over his shoulder and dropped the flag in front of him.
Coaches evaluation HAHA who cares, if you're a good official you'll get work.

[Derock1986]

Coaches being too far out on the field was a problem for us too. What we did was if they were more than 5 yards out on the field between downs, then that team was charged a time out. If they don't have any time outs, then they were flagged for delay of game. If they are on the field during a play, we called illegal participation on bench. We were very lenient with this rule and always issued a warning before we made a call but it gets their attention and when we penalize them or charge them a time out, they don't argue.

[AndrewMcCarthy]

If you're going to strictly enforce keeping coaches off the field, why not use the penalties in the actual rules instead of making up this "timeout/delay of game" procedure??

[Derock1986]

Originally posted by AndrewMcCarthy
If you're going to strictly enforce keeping coaches off the field, why not use the penalties in the actual rules instead of making up this "timeout/delay of game" procedure??

In the youth league I officiate, the timeliness of the game has also been a big concern of everyone involved. The games generally run longer than the 1 hour allotted time which throws the start times off for the following 6 or 7 games. If we have to blow our whistle to stop the game and clock to tell a coach who is not suppose to be on the field to get off, then it slows the game down. Furthermore, the coaches would rather be charged a time out instead of penalized for yardage. It was a win-win situation as far as we were concerned so we modified the rule accordingly.

[ABoselli]

One hour per game? How long are the quarters? 8 minutes?

No wonder you've worked so many. I've had craps that last longer than one of your games.

[Edited by ABoselli on Dec 5th, 2002 at 08:00 PM]

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Obviously they'd rather be charged a timeout rather than be penalized yardage.

That's why when you penalize them yardage they actually stay off the field!

Sounds like you have the inmates running the asylum.

One-hour games are a bit short. Do you have special timing rules too? Our youth games typically run about 1:45. Games start every 2 hours.