Illegal batting Nevada vs. BSU

[TXMike]

I know quite a few Texas HS officials (NCAA rules) who were screaming as soon as the R uttered the words "15 yards from the spot of the foul". You didn't hear us?

[chseagle]

What's the NCAA Rules concerning fans rushing the field before teams are able to do the "good game" handshakes?

[TXMike]

Huh? If the game was over there is no rule

[TussAgee11]

Not a football guy, I didn't think anything of it when I watched but obviously trust you guys.

So the key to this enforcement is that the ball does not change possession until a) the defense secures possession or b) a kick crosses the line of scrimmage? And since a foul occurred before a change of possession, we enforce from either the spot if past the line of scrimmage or from the line of scrimmage if behind it?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

So the key to this enforcement is that the ball does not change possession until a) the defense secures possession or b) a kick crosses the line of scrimmage? And since a foul occurred before a change of possession, we enforce from either the spot if past the line of scrimmage or from the line of scrimmage if behind it?

Possession changes when the other team possess the ball.

You are way off on your penalty enforcements. A down is divided into running plays and loose ball plays. A loose ball play includes free and scrimmage kicks, legal forward passes, and fumbles and backward passes in or behind the neutral zone. The action which precedes the fumble, pass, or kick is part of the loose ball play. Holding before a legal forward pass is thrown would be a foul during a loose ball play. All other plays are running plays. A down can have multiple plays. A kickoff (free kick) starts with a loose ball play then turns into a running play once the kick ends.

Knowing the type of play allows you to determine what the basic spot is. The basic spot for a loose ball play is the previous spot and for a running play it is the end of the related run.

Fouls by the offense behind the basic spot are penalized from the spot of the foul. Other fouls are penalized from the basic spot. This is called the all but one or 3 and 1 principle.

So this was a loose ball play, the foul was by the defense. Fouls by the defense are penalized from the previous spot.

NFHS rules pretty much always use this principle, while the NFL and NCAA have added more exceptions to it for the purpose of making it easier on the offense. Many times you will see holding in a NFL or NCAA game which occurs before a pass (during a loose ball play) behind the previous spot (basic spot) but the penalty is enforced from the previous spot.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Possession changes when the other team possess the ball.

You are way off on your penalty enforcements. A down is divided into running plays and loose ball plays. A loose ball play includes free and scrimmage kicks, legal forward passes, and fumbles and backward passes in or behind the neutral zone. The action which precedes the fumble, pass, or kick is part of the loose ball play. Holding before a legal forward pass is thrown would be a foul during a loose ball play. All other plays are running plays. A down can have multiple plays. A kickoff (free kick) starts with a loose ball play then turns into a running play once the kick ends.

Knowing the type of play allows you to determine what the basic spot is. The basic spot for a loose ball play is the previous spot and for a running play it is the end of the related run.

Fouls by the offense behind the basic spot are penalized from the spot of the foul. Other fouls are penalized from the basic spot. This is called the all but one or 3 and 1 principle.

So this was a loose ball play, the foul was by the defense. Fouls by the defense are penalized from the previous spot.

NFHS rules pretty much always use this principle, while the NFL and NCAA have added more exceptions to it for the purpose of making it easier on the offense. Many times you will see holding in a NFL or NCAA game which occurs before a pass (during a loose ball play) behind the previous spot (basic spot) but the penalty is enforced from the previous spot.

Thanks. Although I don't have the football vocab to "get it" completely, makes a bit more sense now. I have never set foot on a football field as an official, just lurk over here from the baseball board mainly.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I know quite a few Texas HS officials (NCAA rules) who were screaming as soon as the R uttered the words "15 yards from the spot of the foul". You didn't hear us?

No the only thing I've heard coming from Texas lately is the sound of tears and sobbing after the way the Longhorns' season ended.

As far as the key to the enforcement on this, the ball passing through the NZ is key to the enforcement of the penalty. I may have confused the issue of possession and the kick crossing the NZ in my original post. The receiving team doesn't take possession on a scrimmage kick until they secure the ball or the ball is dead (ball at rest, kick OOB, downed by the kicking team, etc). If the ball had been deflected and continued through the NZ (rather than being blocked toward the K) and BSU batted the ball, the enforcement spot would have been the spot of the foul. Of course, the ball would remain live and Nevada would have been able to recover (similar to a muffed punt) and had they done so would have declined the penalty to retain possession. Hopefully that clears it up but if someone can do better, I'm glad to learn a better way to explain.