Pittsburg/Miami Fumble

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

I don't know what to say.

Good. Maybe you'll STFU.

I understand the NFL replay system just fine. The crew did not determine who recovered the fumble. Therefore, it did not show up on the video. This makes it different than 99% of the other fumble reviews you see in the NFL.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I understand the NFL replay system just fine. The crew did not determine who recovered the fumble. Therefore, it did not show up on the video.

I see where you have it wrong. The officials digging through a pile of players to find the ball does not constitute indisputable visual evidence. The player who ends up with the ball in a pile like that may not be the one who actually recovered the ball.

As soon as the ball disappears in a pile the call isn't going to get overturned.

[BktBallRef]

I understand all the things you've posted. They have nothing to do with my point, and that is that this play is different because in 99% of the reviews, the referee is able to determine who recovered the ball. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. Thanks.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I understand all the things you've posted. They have nothing to do with my point, and that is that this play is different because in 99% of the reviews, the referee is able to determine who recovered the ball. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. Thanks.

Ok that is fine. My point is that you do not understand what the NFL means when it says there must be "indisputable visual evidence as to which player recovered the fumble." If you did you would not have written several posts about the officials going through the pile to see who had the ball.

If the officials didn't determine who in the pile had the ball it is not a big deal as it has no significance within the rules. Think about if you were calling a false start and right as you go to blow the whistle the ball is snapped and muffed and there is a big pile for the ball. Are you going to dig through the pile and see who has the ball? Of course not, it doesn't mean anything; just enforce the false start and get on with the game.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Ok that is fine. My point is that you do not understand what the NFL means when it says there must be "indisputable visual evidence as to which player recovered the fumble." If you did you would not have written several posts about the officials going through the pile to see who had the ball.

If the officials didn't determine who in the pile had the ball it is not a big deal as it has no significance within the rules. Think about if you were calling a false start and right as you go to blow the whistle the ball is snapped and muffed and there is a big pile for the ball. Are you going to dig through the pile and see who has the ball? Of course not, it doesn't mean anything; just enforce the false start and get on with the game.

You can make all the erroneous judgments about me that you want simply because I don't express my thoughts they way you would like for me to. I don'tgivea$hit.

My point is this play is different from 99% of the fumbles reviewed because there was no way to determine whor ecovered the ball. That's been my point from the beginning. Not all this other crap you keep brining up about how replays are handled.

Thanks for the discussion, I am now placing you on my ignore list. Take care.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

My point is this play is different from 99% of the fumbles reviewed because there was no way to determine whor ecovered the ball. That's been my point from the beginning. Not all this other crap you keep brining up about how replays are handled.

You left a couple of words off of what your point was. Also you were talking about replay and I simply corrected the what you said that was wrong.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Because the play was initially ruled a TD, the officials didn't dig to see who recovered the ball. I saw it and realized that even before the reply. I knew that even if it was ruled a fumble, Pittsbirgh was going to get th ball back.

Your original point was because the officials didn't determine who recovered the ball that it wasn't going to get overturned. In actuality as soon as the ball went into the pile it wasn't going to get overturned.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thanks for the discussion, I am now placing you on my ignore list. Take care.

You really can't take being wrong. It isn't a big deal that you don't know NFL rules. I know on Rivals Ask the Ref you are the smartest guy on there but over here other people actually know the rules better than you. You don't have to get so worked up about it.

[wwcfoa43]

I am with Cobra on this. The NFL has specific replay procedures which differ from what you or me would do in situations like this.

The ruling on the field was a TD so the crew did not need to determine who recovered the ball.

Once replay was invoked, only the video can determine who recovered. The Referee cannot consult with the crew to determine that point so even if the crew did unpile the bodies the NFL replay rules would still require the visual evidence to award possession.

In games without video replay rules, a crew could get together and discuss the call and if they determined the player was not in then they could then go to the inadvertant whistle as the result of the play.