scrimmage kick penalty inforcement question

[BEAREF]

Situation...scrimmage kick...after change of possession during the return, R5 is flagged for a holding foul and then K5 is flagged for a facemask (5 yard) foul. How would these be enforced? The officials working the game said that the fouls were offsetting and the result of the play stood...just as though nothing happened.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Situation...scrimmage kick...after change of possession during the return, R5 is flagged for a holding foul and then K5 is flagged for a facemask (5 yard) foul. How would these be enforced? The officials working the game said that the fouls were offsetting and the result of the play stood...just as though nothing happened.

sigh... why do we bag the spot of the catch?

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

sigh... why do we bag the spot of the catch?

So how should these have been enforced?

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Situation...scrimmage kick...after change of possession during the return, R5 is flagged for a holding foul and then K5 is flagged for a facemask (5 yard) foul. How would these be enforced? The officials working the game said that the fouls were offsetting and the result of the play stood...just as though nothing happened.

Since R got the ball with clean hands and since this is during the return, R can decline the FM and keep the ball but K will accept the holding and the holding will be enforced under the ABO. If R accepts the FM then you have a double foul. Since this happened after the kick ended, the bean bag (the end of the kick) wouldn't be an enforcement spot. The only reason K would decline the hold would be if this play was the last play of the half or game. By declining, K would end the game or half since there wasn't an accepted penalty by either team.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Since R got the ball with clean hands and since this is during the return, R can decline the FM and keep the ball but K will accept the holding and the holding will be enforced under the ABO. If R accepts the FM then you have a double foul. Since this happened after the kick ended, the bean bag (the end of the kick) wouldn't be an enforcement spot. The only reason K would decline the hold would be if this play was the last play of the half or game. By declining, K would end the game or half since there wasn't an accepted penalty by either team.

+1, with a tiny quibble

Options:

1. R: do you want the ball? If yes, they must decline FM and we check with K; if no, double foul, replay the down (rekick).

2. If R declines FM: K chooses whether to accept the penalty for R's foul. Ordinarily they'll take the penalty, which is enforced from either the end of the run or the spot of the foul (ABO, as kdf5 said), depending on whether the foul occurred beyond the end of the run.

Tiny quibble: if R wanted to extend the period with an untimed down, they wouldn't give K a chance to end the game: they'd accept the penalty for K's foul, create a double foul situation, and we'd play one untimed.

[MD Longhorn]

Argh ... crazy fed rules. WHY is this a rekick, if both penalties happened AFTER COP?

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

The officials working the game said that the fouls were offsetting and the result of the play stood...just as though nothing happened.

Wow...

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Argh ... crazy fed rules. WHY is this a rekick, if both penalties happened AFTER COP?

It's not a rekick unless R accepts the FM penalty, then you have a double foul. If R declines, then the hold against R is the only enforced penalty and will be enforced under the ABO.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Argh ... crazy fed rules. WHY is this a rekick, if both penalties happened AFTER COP?

Because of 10-2-1c, of course.

Rule 10
SECTION 2 DOUBLE AND MULTIPLE FOULS
ART. 1 . . . It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike
or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which:
a. There is no change of team possession, unless all fouls committed by R are
post-scrimmage kick fouls, or
b. There is a change of team possession, and the team in possession at the
end of the down fouls prior to final change of possession unless all fouls
committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls, or
c. There is a change of possession and the team in final possession accepts
the penalty for its opponent’s foul at any time during the down.
In (a), (b) or (c), the penalties cancel and the down is replayed.

[MD Longhorn]

Heh... lol.

Yeah, "why" didn't mean "by what rule".
"Why" meant for what reason would they make this the rule.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Argh ... crazy fed rules. WHY is this a rekick, if both penalties happened AFTER COP?

For the same reason we'd do it in NCAA. Accepted penalties for live ball fouls by both teams always offset.