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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 10:40am
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scrimmage kick question.
This question stems from a post awhile ago titled "here's one I screwed up" At our local meeting last night the play was brought up again and this time people start bringing up all sorts of variations on the original play. I debated the interpretations with the more experienced officials in a very respectful manner and they finally decided to ask for clarification from someone or another, I'm not really sure who and then we'd discuss it next meeting. Anyhow, I wanted to drop in the plays discussed and my "rulings".
Situation A K does a quick kick on third down. Kicker shanks it and it goes out of bounds behind the LOS or maybe just sits dead behind the LOS but in play because everyone is afraid to touch it and confused. my ruling R ball at inbounds spot or spot it became dead. I read somewhere the if a ball becomes dead on a kick and not in possession of anyone then it belongs to R. Situation B K again does a quick kick on third down and again shanks it. The ball stays inbounds behind the LOS. An alert wideout from K picks up the ball and runs. He's tackled 1 yard short of line-to-gain. my ruling K ball 4th and 1. This is the one that was most argued. A couple of the officials said that on a block it is correct that K can advance and if he didn't get to line-to-gain then it'd be fourth down. But since this was just a shank or maybe a high kick blown backwards or whatever...since it was not blocked by R then it would be R ball because K gave the ball up by kicking. I don't see why it matters if it's blocked or not. The ball is behind the LOS and can be advanced in my mind. Am I looking at this wrong? Situation C K in another quick kick situation. This time a high kick that is blown back behind the LOS. A back for K catches the ball in flight behind the LOS and runs beyond the line-to-gain. my ruling 1st down for K. This one wasn't brought up at the meeting, I just thought of it now and since I don't have my books on me this one could be very easy and I'm just not remembering it. Anyhow, I'm think that there is no difference between a grounded kick behind the LOS and a kick in flight behind the LOS. If it's behind the LOS then it can be advanced by K. So what do y'all think? I think K should just stop quick kicking and make our life easier  But seriously. This one mistake I made a while ago has got us all reevaluating what we really know about scrimmage kicks. 90% of the time kicks are fairly easy to rule on but I think it's that last 10% of the time that makes you a good official. I want to be a good official someday and I see I've got work to do. I should know this and be able to rule in a moment but obiviously I can't yet. Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks all!
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 10:51am
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NCAA or FED?
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 11:05am
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Your correct in all three cases.... nfhs
Rule 5-1-3.... When a scrimmage down ends with the ball in the field of play or out of bounds between the goal lines, a new series is awared to:
Case A. (ball shanked out bounds behind the line to gain)... 5-1-3-e. R, if K legally kicks during any scrimmage down and the ball is recovered by R, is in joint possession of opponents, goes out of bounds or becomes dead with no player in possession. Case B. (shank behind line picked up by K but short of line to gain)... 5-1-4... If the kickers recover a scrimmage kick in or behind the neutral zone and the ball has not been touched first by R beyond the neutral zone, the ball remains live and belongs to K and the down counts. Case C. (high kick blown back and caught be K behind the LOS). Rule 5-1-4 applies again. Also... Rule 6-2-3 ... Any kicker may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 02:56pm
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Quote:
how exactly is it different in the NCAA for these examples? Of course I brag on my knowledge very tongue-in-cheek. I know I'm still a complete rookie at this stuff and will probably always see myself that way.
Last edited by BigFarns; Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 02:59pm.
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Anything I missed?
__________________
Check out my football officials resource page at http://resources.refstripes.com If you have a file you would like me to add, email me and I will get it posted.
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 04:06pm
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B also - K cannot advance that kick either. K can only advance a kick from behind the NZ if said kick was blocked behind or in the ENZ.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 04:10pm
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Quote:
__________________
Check out my football officials resource page at http://resources.refstripes.com If you have a file you would like me to add, email me and I will get it posted.
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Thu Sep 21, 2006, 04:12pm
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Quote:
__________________
Bob M.
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