The Dreaded Inadvertant Whistle

[parepat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The problem with this is that now you're saying it's different if a player flattens someone before a whistle than after. And it's not that way at all -- it's a problem if a player flattens someone once the ball is dead.

And to bring this thread full circle, the only time that happens is when we have an inadvertent whistle.

A. The book tells us we are to blow our whistles.
B. A runs along the sideline and steps out. He is unaware he stepped out as is the Defense, who knocks him out of bounds (again) before the whistle. The play killed itself yet do you have a flag? I don't.
C. Players and coaches expect whistles.
D. If the plays kill themselves why ever have a whistle?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by parepat

A. The book tells us we are to blow our whistles.
B. A runs along the sideline and steps out. He is unaware he stepped out as is the Defense, who knocks him out of bounds (again) before the whistle. The play killed itself yet do you have a flag? I don't.
C. Players and coaches expect whistles.
D. If the plays kill themselves why ever have a whistle?

The whistle is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't absolve players from knowing their location on the field.

In A, I would give a little leeway. I'm talking about a player who's 30 yards behind the play who decleats a player with an unnecessary block and the coach screams, "we teach them to play through the whistle." Well, chucklehead, you should teach them to not hit someone 30 yards behind the play that's wrapping up.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by parepat

A. The book tells us we are to blow our whistles.
B. A runs along the sideline and steps out. He is unaware he stepped out as is the Defense, who knocks him out of bounds (again) before the whistle. The play killed itself yet do you have a flag? I don't.
C. Players and coaches expect whistles.
D. If the plays kill themselves why ever have a whistle?

A. No it doesn't. The only times the rule book says talks about whistles is about inadvertent whistles and to say that a foul before a snap or free kick should have a whistle to indicate the ball remains dead.

If you are talking about the officials manual it says things like "Find ball before sounding whistle." "Actually see ball in possession of runner who is down or forward progress stopped." "Before sounding whistle see the ball and be certain ball is dead."

Many times by the time you actually find the ball it would be stupid to sound the whistle as everyone has already stopped playing.

B. You should learn the rules.

"No player or non player shall: Charge into or throw an opponent to the ground after he is obviously out of the play, or after the ball is clearly dead either in or out of bounds."

Just because the ball is dead does not mean it is a foul if the defense knocks the runner down. In your play the ball was not clearly dead to any of the players so it would not be a foul.

C. Why do you care about them?

D. The whistle is used to get people's attention.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by parepat

B. A runs along the sideline and steps out. He is unaware he stepped out as is the Defense, who knocks him out of bounds (again) before the whistle. The play killed itself yet do you have a flag? I don't.

We had this last night. WR from the home team has a toenail OB, and we're slow on the whistle. He keeps running in bounds, and is hit 10 yards downfield. At halftime coach is whining about it being a late hit, how I missed it, blah blah.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

We had this last night. WR from the home team has a toenail OB, and we're slow on the whistle. He keeps running in bounds, and is hit 10 yards downfield. At halftime coach is whining about it being a late hit, how I missed it, blah blah.

We had a defender hit someone a step outside the restricted area last night. There was a whistle, too. That didn't stop a coach for saying "he tried to let up, he didn't drill him." Yeah, chucklehead, he hit him 4-5 yards out of bounds and we should give style points because he didn't pancake the guy. Right.

Fun night of 2 2-5 teams that seemed to have packed it in for the season. At least today we have 2 teams playing for playoff positioning and for a conference title, so they'll all worry more about the game instead of whining at every opportunity.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The problem with this is that now you're saying it's different if a player flattens someone before a whistle than after. And it's not that way at all -- it's a problem if a player flattens someone once the ball is dead.

And to bring this thread full circle, the only time that happens is when we have an inadvertent whistle.

Agree - but you wouldn't want to get rid of whistles entirely, would you? Whistles must serve some purpose or we wouldn't carry one. I can think of 2 - to signal the ball ready for play and to signal that the ball has become dead.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The problem with this is that now you're saying it's different if a player flattens someone before a whistle than after. And it's not that way at all -- it's a problem if a player flattens someone once the ball is dead.

And to bring this thread full circle, the only time that happens is when we have an inadvertent whistle.

That is exactly opposite of what I said. I said I can flag late hits either way, but that it makes it wasier to sell if we have a timely whistle.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Cobra

A. No it doesn't. The only times the rule book says talks about whistles is about inadvertent whistles and to say that a foul before a snap or free kick should have a whistle to indicate the ball remains dead.

If you are talking about the officials manual it says things like "Find ball before sounding whistle." "Actually see ball in possession of runner who is down or forward progress stopped." "Before sounding whistle see the ball and be certain ball is dead."

Many times by the time you actually find the ball it would be stupid to sound the whistle as everyone has already stopped playing.

B. You should learn the rules.

"No player or non player shall: Charge into or throw an opponent to the ground after he is obviously out of the play, or after the ball is clearly dead either in or out of bounds."

Just because the ball is dead does not mean it is a foul if the defense knocks the runner down. In your play the ball was not clearly dead to any of the players so it would not be a foul.

C. Why do you care about them?

D. The whistle is used to get people's attention.

You are wrong

A. The book (officials manual--the "book that tells us how to officiate") says the following about the whistle:

"sounding the whistle sharply contributes to the reduction of fouls"
"When ball becomes dead sound whistle quickly and loudly"
"find ball before sounding whistle"
"When sounding whistle, do it wuickly and loudly"
"move in quickly to be certain all action stops on whistle"
"be ready to assist covering official after whistle has sounded"

** I did not find the following in the book (although some are true statements)
"if you never blow your whistle, you will never have an inadvertant whistle"

"Blow the whistle once the ball is down in your area-unless you don't want to"

"all players should know when the play is dead regardless of their distance from the ball, so heck with them"

B. I am pretty good on the rules, thanks.

You missed the point.

If a runner steps out and we don't have a whistle, the likelihood that he will be hit again (unnecessarily as he is already down) is much higher. Blow your stinkin whistle and let everyone know that the play is over.

C. Are you kidding. The players are the ones who we are paid (quite handsomely. I think we would all agree) to protect. Blowing the whistle is designed to halt contact between players. Less contact equals less injury). The players rely (as they should) on that notice to let them know that the play is over. If they are not in position to see the runner it is the ONLY way they will know when the play is over.

As for the coaches, they have far more invested in the game than we do. Sometimes their jobs depend upon it. To say that their opinions and that of the players don't matter leads me to believe that you are one of those officials that thinks that the game is about him. Enough said.

D. You are right. The whistle is used to get people's attention. The players, to alert them that the down is over by rule. That is why I prefer to have a whistle at the end of each down when possible.

[BuckeyeRef]

In Ohio they have made the whistle part of our mechanics. "Whistle on every play - No exceptions." They want to stop the action between players who are not near the ball or looking at the ball carrier.

[Rich]

We want a whistle on every play, too, but I don't think it's good practice to think of the whistle as a device to "protect" players. That mentality leads to IWs, IMO.

I once overheard a BJ talk about how he likes to give a quick whistle on a fair catch and it's exactly the opposite of what we talk about on my crew. I want the BJ to have the whistle out of his mouth and ensure possession before he even starts the whistle up to the mouth. The signal protects the player -- a quick whistle could lead us to the most draconian IW result imaginable.

[JasonLJ]

To me the thought of not having a whistle at some point on every play is just crazy. If not having a whistle on some plays was a good idea, the NFL and NCAA would follow that. They have whistles on EVERY play, as should high school. A late whistle is better then NO whistle. I can't believe that is a mechanic in other states.

[Rich]

We had a coach last week who complained about the 7 inadvertent whistles against his team by crews this season. In the next sentence he complained about the slows whistle other crews gave him this season. I guess he want it both ways?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We had a coach last week who complained about the 7 inadvertent whistles against his team by crews this season. In the next sentence he complained about the slows whistle other crews gave him this season. I guess he want it both ways?

I preach slow whistles to my crew on every play. If you don't see the ball and the ball is not in your primary area don't blow the darn whistle. Most IW are just plain bad mechanics.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We had a coach last week who complained about the 7 inadvertent whistles against his team by crews this season. In the next sentence he complained about the slows whistle other crews gave him this season. I guess he want it both ways?

I preach slow whistles to my crew on every play. If you don't see the ball and the ball is not in your primary area don't blow the darn whistle. Most/all IW are just plain bad mechanics.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I preach slow whistles to my crew on every play. If you don't see the ball and the ball is not in your primary area don't blow the darn whistle. Most/all IW are just plain bad mechanics.

We've had one varsity IW in the last 6 years. In the end, it was a good learning experience for the guy that had it -- a 5th year LJ who is a damned good official who now knows why we try to only have one whistle on a play and to only blow the whistle if you see a runner down possessing a football.

I pretty much ignored the coach while keeping a smile on my face. I knew it wasn't going to change the way we work the game.