Pre-Snap Communication w/ Players

[FHSUref]

All,
I officiated FB for several years at the High School level. I have since had to leave it because of my current career.

My question to those of you who officiate at the Collegiate level... or any level for that matter is, Prior to the snap, if you are the LJ or the J, do you communicate to the WR or DB is they are lined up on the LOS?

Reason for asking... Watched a game last weekend where the home team was facing a 4th & Goal from the 9yd line down by 4 points with under 40 seconds left in the game. At the snap, the J dropped a flag. The pass thrown by the QB was incomplete thus sending the visitors into celebration.

But wait... the flag. The DB was flagged for being offsides and the Home team scored on the very next play. So, My question....

1. Do you communicate pre-snap to a WR or DB to avoid having to call a penalty in this situation?

Yes? No? Why? Thanks.

[mbyron]

For HS, yes absolutely wings should communicate with their receivers to prevent encroachment. "You're on," "you're off," or if he says he's on or off, "back up" or "get up" would all be appropriate.

I was trained never to say "you're OK," since I don't know where he's supposed to be. So instead I report where he is.

I had to talk to a rookie this season who flagged a kid in a JV game for illegal formation. The kid had said he was on the line, and the rookie didn't think so and flagged him.

If the defense is in the NZ I'll holler for him to get back. If it's a varsity game and he doesn't move, that's still encroachment (HS rules don't have "offsides").

[Canned Heat]

Well put....my wings will respond either "On?" or "Off?" and then give an OK or thumb up when they get where they want to be. At lower level HS and youth...they'll ask the kid if he wants to be on or off just to save the confusion and help them out a little bit.

That avoids the coach yelling about how we are supposed to tell his kid where to be. (I.E.: How do we know where you want your kid lined up, coach?)

[BktBallRef]

You should never tell a player to "back up" or "get up." If you do and the ball is snapped as he moves, you're responsible for the player committing the foul.

Point back if he's off, tap your leg if you choose, or "My foot's on the line." Pleanty of ways to point it out without telling him to move.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You should never tell a player to "back up" or "get up." If you do and the ball is snapped as he moves, you're responsible for the player committing the foul.

Point back if he's off, tap your leg if you choose, or "My foot's on the line." Plenty of ways to point it out without telling him to move.

If you tap your leg to tell him he's not on the line, you're telling him to move.

If he's off the line when he should be on, is the wing official responsible for the illegal formation foul, too?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If you tap your leg to tell him he's not on the line, you're telling him to move.

If he's off the line when he should be on, is the wing official responsible for the illegal formation foul, too?

If he's on the line when he should be off, is the wing responsible for the illegal receiver downfield?

[bkdow]

I tell them when they are off or when they are on. I will only tell a DB that he's over if he's the player near me. If the defensive or offensive line is over the ball, I try to communicate it early in the game so that we don't have to flag it. If it's close, I give the them the benefit of the doubt and game-manage it. If it's blatant, then I'll flag it and kill the play because it should be a dead ball if you are going to flag it.

Not the way to do it: I was working as a WH in a JV game and my wing started screaming at a 3 receiver set. He then came off the sideline yelling, "hold it, hold it! Which one of you is suppose to be on the line?" I freaked out as I've never had someone stop a play after the RFP without a whistle. Never saw this guy before and hope never to work with him again. He claimed he was a veteran referee but also told me after the game that there were too many rules for us to keep track of.

[whitehat]

High school
I find myself communciating more than I would like to wideouts and Db's. It seems they are taught to look at the official first instead of the ball in order to lineup correctly. Having said that, I usually tap my thigh and nod to indicate they are OK. This is usually only if they are trying to line up on the line. If they are back that is usally fairly obvious to them and me.
I do not tell wideouts to "move up" because as soon as you do the ball would be snapped then we have a flag for IM.

In your example this play would never have gotten off as a DB violating the NZ is a dead ball foul and the play never happens. Of course context and timing is important, if the RFP has not been whistled then the DB can get back on his side of the NZ without a foul.

I have moved DB's and wideouts back. Most often the wideout is supposed to be on the line but he is too far back...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by whitehat

I do not tell wideouts to "move up" because as soon as you do the ball would be snapped then we have a flag for IM.

I used to worry about this, until I realized that if they don't move up, they'll probably be flagged for IF.

Lining up ain't rocket science, and it's not my fault if a player can't do it. Still, I'm willing to help him go where he's supposed to be.

[PocketSidewalk]

Originally Posted by whitehat

I find myself communciating more than I would like to wideouts and Db's. It seems they are taught to look at the official first instead of the ball in order to lineup correctly.

+1

This is definitely a pet peeve of mine, and I'm just a rookie. Nothing like having a coach standing right behind you yelling to his wideout, "Look at the ref, check with the ref."

If coaches want to teach their players to look at me to see if I'm punching them on or off the line then that's their prerogative; but when the wideout is trying to communicate with me before every play, it's distracting and sometimes annoying.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PocketSidewalk

+1

This is definitely a pet peeve of mine, and I'm just a rookie. Nothing like having a coach standing right behind you yelling to his wideout, "Look at the ref, check with the ref."

If coaches want to teach their players to look at me to see if I'm punching them on or off the line then that's their prerogative; but when the wideout is trying to communicate with me before every play, it's distracting and sometimes annoying.

I think this differs from place to place. At most places, at non-varsity levels I've worked at, HL and LJ are encouraged to help them line up. It varies at V. And even varies by crew. Some tell you to help, some to ignore, others to help only if asked. OTOH - watch on Sunday ... you'll see wideouts looking at the officials, sometimes pointing, asking. I see no harm in helping.

[ajmc]

I've found that responding to questions, or even just looks, by tapping my leg, and stating, "My foot's on the line" seems to provide enough information so they can adjust to whatever they're supposed to be.

I usually try and tell each receiver the first time I see them, "My foot will be on the line all day", and they usually check and adjust.

[FHSUref]

So what I am reading is that if a DB is lined up in the NZ that BEFORE the snap, you would provide a little assistance/communication to have him backup?

I agree completly with this. I would not want the game to come down to a DB or WR for that matter lining up in the NZ when I could have prevented it and "let the kids decide the outcome of the game"

This has bothered me all week. Mainly since the team I was cheering for lost. I just replayed all the games I called where I had to tell kids to back up a little. I know it's not my responsibility... But my rule of thumb is/was if I can prevent a penalty or infraction by providing a little bit of communication, then I would.

[cmathews]

FHSU were you in Golden this weekend??

[jTheUmp]

Our crew mentions this to the head coach during pregame: If the wing's arm is raised, that means he thinks the player closest to him is off the line. If the wing's arm is at his side, that means the player is on the line.

We also never respond to a player who says "am I good?" because we, as officials, don't know where he's supposed to line up.
However, if the player asks "am I on?" or "am I off?", we can (and will) respond appropriately.

If the player doesn't ask, we won't say anything.