Punt muffed in own end zone (NFL)

[coogrfan]

Some friends of mine and I came up with the following situation(we attempted to answer by checking the digest of rules at NFL.com, without success):

Punt returner attempts to field a punt in his own end zone (I don't know why, temporary insanity perhaps?). The return man muffs the punt(fails to establish possession), and then recovers and is tackled, never leaving the end zone.

Questions
1) What is the correct ruling here, touchback or safety?
2) What would be the correct ruling if the punting team had recovered?
3) If the return man had successfully fielded the punt, fumbled in his own end zone and then recovered the ball, what would be the ruling?
4) Same question as 3), except that the punting team recovers.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by coogrfan
Some friends of mine and I came up with the following situation(we attempted to answer by checking the digest of rules at NFL.com, without success):

Punt returner attempts to field a punt in his own end zone (I don't know why, temporary insanity perhaps?). The return man muffs the punt(fails to establish possession), and then recovers and is tackled, never leaving the end zone.

Questions
1) What is the correct ruling here, touchback or safety?

Touchback. The impetus that sent the ball in touch was the kick.

2) What would be the correct ruling if the punting team had recovered?

Touchdown. They would have possession of a live ball in there own end zone.

3) If the return man had successfully fielded the punt, fumbled in his own end zone and then recovered the ball, what would be the ruling?

Touchback. The impetus that sent the ball in touch was the kick.

4) Same question as 3), except that the punting team recovers.

Touchdown. Possession of a live ball in the opponents end zone.

MJT or GolfNRef, if a screwed the pooch on any of these, let me know. I tried to answer without my NFL rulebook in front of me.

[coogrfan]

The impetus question is what was throwing us. The NFL rules digest has the following definitions:


14. Impetus: The action of a player that gives momentum to the ball.

30. Touchback: When a ball is dead on or behind a team’s own goal line, provided the impetus came from an opponent and provided it is not a touchdown or a missed field goal.

Safety
1. The important factor in a safety is impetus. Two points are scored for the opposing team when the ball is dead on or behind a team’s own goal line if the impetus came from a player on that team.

(a) Blocked punt goes out of kicking team’s end zone. Impetus was provided by punting team. The block only changes direction of ball, not impetus.

This last would seem to imply that a player on the return team cannot provide the impetus.

http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/

[Edited by coogrfan on Aug 11th, 2005 at 03:28 PM]

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by mikesears
Touchdown. They would have possession of a live ball in there own end zone.

The only thing I see wrong is that they needed possession of the ball in their opponent's endzone. Right calls though.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker

The only thing I see wrong is that they needed possession of the ball in their opponent's endzone. Right calls though.

Oops. Possession in opponent's endzone = touchdown.

Thanks for catching that.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by coogrfan
The impetus question is what was throwing us. The NFL rules digest has the following definitions:


14. Impetus: The action of a player that gives momentum to the ball.

30. Touchback: When a ball is dead on or behind a team’s own goal line, provided the impetus came from an opponent and provided it is not a touchdown or a missed field goal.

Safety
1. The important factor in a safety is impetus. Two points are scored for the opposing team when the ball is dead on or behind a team’s own goal line if the impetus came from a player on that team.

(a) Blocked punt goes out of kicking team’s end zone. Impetus was provided by punting team. The block only changes direction of ball, not impetus.

This last would seem to imply that a player on the return team cannot provide the impetus.

http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/

[Edited by coogrfan on Aug 11th, 2005 at 03:28 PM]

In the NFL there are ways to provide impetus if you are defending. I will need to locate my rulebook to tell you exactly how.

[coogrfan]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Keep 'em coming...:~)

[golfnref]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker

The only thing I see wrong is that they needed possession of the ball in their opponent's endzone. Right calls though.

Mike, I agree. All your rulings were correct. As Warrenkicker pointed out, your reference to the wrong end zone was the only slip.

[MJT]

Right on Mike!

Tomorrow afternoon we go on vacation for a week. I will try to get to this coffee shop in town a time or two to check the boards, but will miss my daily discussions with you guys. Take care!

[Dommer1]

Defense is responsible for new impetus when they muff a ball at rest or nearly at rest, or when they illegaly bat (a kick, fumble, or backward pass after it has hit the ground) or kick a ball.

Also note that the rule about forced touching in the NFL says that in case of forced touching, the touching is NOT disregarded, but charged to the player pushing or blocking!

However, I believe that you would still be deemed to have touched the ball if you attempt to block an opponent, and then the opponent overpowers you. You are then "active" and is responsible for the touch yourself. The clinic was long ago, but I think that's right...