White Hats

[JRutledge]

We go to the captain and if the decision is difficult we ask them with the coach in their view. But we always have the captain involved.

Peace

[tjones1]

Which option do you give first? Or does it depend?

I've been refereeing underclass games.

As I recall, it seems I usually tell them the result of the play first (if they decline) and then what would happen if they accept the penalty.

Right, wrong, way off base, or somewhat on the path?

[waltjp]

When a decision is needed I'll explain the options to the captains while facing the captain's bench so the coach can hear our conversation. I'll also have the wing official relay the choices to the coach. I'll then ask the captain to look at his coach.

My talk with the captains is pretty basic, "There was holding on the play. If you accept the penalty is will be 3rd down and 14. If you decline the penalty it will be 4th down and 3."

The coach will hear, "3rd and 14 or 4th and 3?"

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by waltjp

When a decision is needed I'll explain the options to the captains while facing the captain's bench so the coach can hear our conversation. I'll also have the wing official relay the choices to the coach. I'll then ask the captain to look at his coach.

The coach will hear, "3rd and 14 or 4th and 3?"

Respect is a two way street, and I've found that sometimes the best friend you will find on a football field (outside your crewmates) is Team Captains. They have been selected for that position and by that selection have earned OUR respect.

NF:2-32-5-c designates the Captain as the team representative during, "Penalty decisions following a foul".

On non complicated or obvious options, after giving a preliminary signal towards the offended sideline, I explain options to the Captain in the simplest, clearest terms (like 3rd & 14 or 4th & 3). I give him a reasonable opportunity to think about it, which may include looking to his coach for guidance (who if he was paying attention knows what's going on because of my preliminary signal).

If he should make what I consider a bad choice, I'll assume I wasn't clear enough in my explanation and go over the options again, hopefully clearer. If he wants help or advice I'll allow him to look to his sideline for help, but I give him the respect he has earned to make the judgment.

When it's a complicated decision or situation, I'll steer the Captain to a place for my explanation that what I say can be overheard by his sideline. Again, the decision as to whether or not he needs, or wants, assistance in making the call is his to make by virtue of his being selected as Captain, not mine.

I've never had a problem with a coach hearing my explanations, when they needed to be heard, and will take as much time as needed until the Captain understands the options he's confronted with. I've found Captains, who have been treated with proper respect in front of their teammates and sideline, to be really helpful when situations start to turn brown and their assistance may be needed.

[cmathews]

In the NFL, where the captains of each team should be as knowlegeable about the game of football as anyone, the Referees look to the sidelines for penalty acceptance or declination. Why on earth would we expect a teenage kid to make a decision when adults in his position at upper levels aren't consulted...I am all for asking the coaches, and I think that it should be a change in the rulebook to at the very least allow this....

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by waltjp

When a decision is needed I'll explain the options to the captains while facing the captain's bench so the coach can hear our conversation. I'll also have the wing official relay the choices to the coach. I'll then ask the captain to look at his coach.

The coach will hear, "3rd and 14 or 4th and 3?"

Respect is a two way street, and I've found that sometimes the best friend you will find on a football field (outside your crewmates) is Team Captains. They have been selected for that position and by that selection have earned OUR respect.

NF:2-32-5-c designates the Captain as the team representative during, "Penalty decisions following a foul".

On non complicated or obvious options, after giving a preliminary signal towards the offended sideline, I explain options to the Captain in the simplest, clearest terms (like 3rd & 14 or 4th & 3). I give him a reasonable opportunity to think about it, which may include looking to his coach for guidance.

If he should make what I consider a bad choice, I'll assume I wasn't clear enough in my explanation and go over the options again, hopefully clearer. If he wants help or advice I'll allow him to look to his sideline for help, but I give him the respect he has earned to make the judgment.

When it's a complicated decision or situation, I'll steer the Captain to a place for my explanation that what I say can be overheard by his sideline. Again, the decision as to whether or not he needs, or wants, assistance in making the call is his to make, not mine.

I've never had a problem with a coach hearing my explanations, when they needed to be heard, and I've found Captains, who have been treated with respect, to be really helpful when situations start to turn brown.

[bkdow]

I ask the captains but won't let them make a stupid decision. I ask them so that it helps them transition into adulthood. This game is bigger than the game. It's about training young men into adulthood. With that said, they usually ask the coach if they are unclear.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bkdow

I ask the captains but won't let them make a stupid decision. I ask them so that it helps them transition into adulthood. This game is bigger than the game. It's about training young men into adulthood. With that said, they usually ask the coach if they are unclear.

I ask the captains as well, although with the younger ones while I'm asking a captain, my LG or HL is asking the coach and telling me, so I can steer if necessary.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I ask the captains as well, although with the younger ones while I'm asking a captain, my LG or HL is asking the coach and telling me, so I can steer if necessary.

I can honestly say I have never taken my own Left Guard to a football game..

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by bkdow

I ask the captains but won't let them make a stupid decision. I ask them so that it helps them transition into adulthood. This game is bigger than the game. It's about training young men into adulthood. With that said, they usually ask the coach if they are unclear.

What? Your post makes me chuckle! Transition into adulthood...are you serious?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

blah blah blah

Alf, you're repeating yourself. Why you quoted me before either of your posts baffles me. I have no idea if you agree or disagree with what I wrote.

[Rich]

I'm a believer in not getting crap on my shoes. Allowing a kid to make a bad decision during PE or during the coin toss only makes my shoes dirty. Sure, the kid may have made the wrong decision, but why let that happen?

A is called for holding and on the play goes beyond the line to gain. No captain's input is needed -- I don't even ask. When I jump on a crew and watch a white hat ask in such a situation (or on a score where there is exactly zero chance the penalty will be declined) it makes me wonder if the white hat has any kind of game sense.

When PE does require a real decision, I position myself so that the coach is within earshot of the conversation and I encourage the captain to ask his coach. If I'm in front of the bench when it happens, I simply ask the coach. I always give the options as 3rd and 21 or 4th and 8 (or whatever). That's clear to them.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm a believer in not getting crap on my shoes. Allowing a kid to make a bad decision during PE or during the coin toss only makes my shoes dirty. Sure, the kid may have made the wrong decision, but why let that happen?

A is called for holding and on the play goes beyond the line to gain. No captain's input is needed -- I don't even ask. When I jump on a crew and watch a white hat ask in such a situation (or on a score where there is exactly zero chance the penalty will be declined) it makes me wonder if the white hat has any kind of game sense.

When PE does require a real decision, I position myself so that the coach is within earshot of the conversation and I encourage the captain to ask his coach. If I'm in front of the bench when it happens, I simply ask the coach. I always give the options as 3rd and 21 or 4th and 8 (or whatever). That's clear to them.

I agree that when no input is needed, just signal it and walk it (if accepted). It's when it's not clear is what we're talking about. Varsity, SubV, I'm asking the captain. Below that, I'm still asking the captain, but my Head Linesman or Left Guard (apparently) are asking the coach to so I know if I need to steer the captain.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Alf, you're repeating yourself. Why you quoted me before either of your posts baffles me. I have no idea if you agree or disagree with what I wrote.

Apparently you're easily baffled. Perhaps if you read what I wrote, and bother to think about it, you might fugure out whether I agreed with you. Sorry my posts repeated, I intended to edit the first one and apparently hit the wrong key.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and your original input suprisingly seemed rational.

If what I wrote seems too long for you to handle, or comprehand, don't exert yourself and simply blow by it. You seem to already know everything, so why bother with advice.

[whitehat]

I have found it over the years that it is less confusing for me and the captain if I begin by saying "If you decline the penalty..." then they get the result of the play...after that I say "if you accept the penatly then...