Legal "trick" plays?

[SC Ump]

Yeah, I think we've discussed these all in the past, but I just wanted to double check myself.

SIT 1: On try, after the RFP, A1 yells to team, "Hold up." Then yells as moving toward the sideline, "Coach, let me get the kicking tee." As B relaxes, A snaps the ball to A2.

SIT 2: On play, A1 says loudly to snapper, "We've got the wrong ball." Then snapper hands the ball to A1, via a legal but different snap. A1 walks to the sideline with ball and then turns up field for a long run.

SIT3: With 30 seconds in the first half, A coach yells, "Take a knee." In (a) A1 responds, "Take a knee! Take a knee!" Or in (b) A1 does not respond to coach. In either case, A1 does a little dip, but never touches his knee to the ground but instead stays standing and throws for a long pass.

Rulings for FED?

[With_Two_Flakes]

I'm game to have a stab at these as I need to brush up on my Fed knowledge before my trip to Detroit/Ann Arbor later this Fall. I don't have the absolute latest Rule and case books so my references might be a bit out.

1. A foul. That one sounds just like Case Book 9-9-4 Situation B.

2. A foul. Another one covered by 9-9-4.

3. Not seen such a play discussed here before but my guess would be certainly a foul in 3a and probably a foul in 3b.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Yeah, I think we've discussed these all in the past, but I just wanted to double check myself.

SIT 1: On try, after the RFP, A1 yells to team, "Hold up." Then yells as moving toward the sideline, "Coach, let me get the kicking tee." As B relaxes, A snaps the ball to A2.

SIT 2: On play, A1 says loudly to snapper, "We've got the wrong ball." Then snapper hands the ball to A1, via a legal but different snap. A1 walks to the sideline with ball and then turns up field for a long run.

SIT3: With 30 seconds in the first half, A coach yells, "Take a knee." In (a) A1 responds, "Take a knee! Take a knee!" Or in (b) A1 does not respond to coach. In either case, A1 does a little dip, but never touches his knee to the ground but instead stays standing and throws for a long pass.

Rulings for FED?

1 & 2 are illegal.

On 3, I've got real poor eye sight. Looked like his knee touched the ground to me.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Yeah, I think we've discussed these all in the past, but I just wanted to double check myself.

SIT 1: On try, after the RFP, A1 yells to team, "Hold up." Then yells as moving toward the sideline, "Coach, let me get the kicking tee." As B relaxes, A snaps the ball to A2.

SIT 2: On play, A1 says loudly to snapper, "We've got the wrong ball." Then snapper hands the ball to A1, via a legal but different snap. A1 walks to the sideline with ball and then turns up field for a long run.

SIT3: With 30 seconds in the first half, A coach yells, "Take a knee." In (a) A1 responds, "Take a knee! Take a knee!" Or in (b) A1 does not respond to coach. In either case, A1 does a little dip, but never touches his knee to the ground but instead stays standing and throws for a long pass.

Rulings for FED?

If I think it is a situation that the offense might take a knee I will asked the coach and if he says he is taking a knee he better take a knee. If there is just talk back and forth from the a player to a coach and I can't confirm than I will assume they are running a play. If you want help from the crew controlling the situaiton you can clue us in.

[bigjohn]

COMMENT: Football has been and
always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual
formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse
the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is
beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.

[Robert Goodman]

In 3(a), isn't he declaring that they are taking a knee, and so wouldn't you kill the play once his knee even got near the ground?

[JasonTX]

For NCAA.

1. Illegal
2. Illegal
3. The ball becomes dead when a player simulates placing a knee on the ground. If he don't simulate, then it's a legal play.

[Texas Aggie]

Jason: USC on 1 and 2?

On three, as an R, if they tell me they are taking a knee, I'm blowing it dead after the snap. I'll just say IW if they protest and let the clock run. I also liberalize the word, simulate.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Jason: USC on 1 and 2?

On three, as an R, if they tell me they are taking a knee, I'm blowing it dead after the snap. I'll just say IW if they protest and let the clock run. I also liberalize the word, simulate.

Yes. USC on 1 and 2. I don't like to get involved with any plays the offense calls. I just caution the defense that they need to be real careful if he takes a knee. The defense still has a right to make a play so if we are getting involved in shutting it down before it's dead by rule, then we have taken away an oppurtunity from the defense.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

For NCAA.

1. Illegal
2. Illegal
3. The ball becomes dead when a player simulates placing a knee on the ground. If he don't simulate, then it's a legal play.

Agreed. 1 and 2 are unfair acts. For number 3, I love that the NCAA has this rule.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In 3(a), isn't he declaring that they are taking a knee, and so wouldn't you kill the play once his knee even got near the ground?

I would and I do.

I always tell the defense that they are taking a knee and to be smart.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Agreed. 1 and 2 are unfair acts. For number 3, I love that the NCAA has this rule.

For completeness sake, the NFL has a similar rule which says the play is over when the QB simulates taking a knee. Surprised this isn't the rule for FED as well.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

I don't have the absolute latest Rule and case books ...

I saw it in this year's case book as 9-9-1, but thanks for pointing me there. I was thinking I had read the 'missing tee' play here on this board instead of in the case book.

Thanks to all that assisted. Situation #3 was a play proposed to us in pregame by a coach, but he never executed it.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Agreed. 1 and 2 are unfair acts. For number 3, I love that the NCAA has this rule.

All but one of my games this year has ended on a QB kneel.....we take this very seriously. I have my U mention multiple times to the D that they're going to a knee, nothing foolish...yada yada. If the QB and/or coach mention the "going to a knee" I specifically state to the QB to backstep and go down immediately. We are in there tighter and rather quickly to assure no one gets popped with a cheapy. I fully agree with the NCAA wording and wish it were implemented into Fed.