Spot foul penalties

[Official]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Let me put this all together so we agree.

A's ball on A's 35. A runs the ball to B's 47. A53 is flagged for holding at midfield.

The basic spot is the end of the run, B's 47. The foul occurred at midfield, behind the basic spot. This is the spot of enforcement.

The 10-yard penalty from midfield put the ball at A's 40. Replay the down if the line to gain has not been achieved after enforcement of the penalty, or 1st down if is has.

Ok So it is now 1st and 5? It does not matter where the ball ended up. The spot of the foul is all we need for holding correct? The official will throw the flag where the foul occured on all spot fouls? But will just throw his flag randomly on other fouls?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Official

Ok So it is now 1st and 5? It does not matter where the ball ended up. The spot of the foul is all we need for holding correct? The official will throw the flag where the foul occured on all spot fouls? But will just throw his flag randomly on other fouls?

You'll have an official throw the flag at the spot of the foul for most fouls save for penalties that occur with the snap (offside, illegal formation, illegal shift, etc.) and dead ball penalties. Enforcement of a penalty is dependent on where the foul occurred, what was happening when the play, and where the play ended in relation to the spot of the foul. On your play, assuming it was 1st and 10 from A's 35, after enforcement, it would be 1st and 5 from A's 40. If the line to gain was achieved, it would be first and ten after enforcement.

[Official]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You'll have an official throw the flag at the spot of the foul for most fouls save for penalties that occur with the snap (offside, illegal formation, illegal shift, etc.) and dead ball penalties. Enforcement of a penalty is dependent on where the foul occurred, what was happening when the play, and where the play ended in relation to the spot of the foul. On your play, assuming it was 1st and 10 from A's 35, after enforcement, it would be 1st and 5 from A's 40. If the line to gain was achieved, it would be first and ten after enforcement.

thank you for that clarification but i'm just not seeing how "where the ball ends up affects the enforcement of a penalty." In this situation we took it from the spot foul. In what situations does the end result of the ball play a factor.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Official

thank you for that clarification but i'm just not seeing how "where the ball ends up affects the enforcement of a penalty." In this situation we took it from the spot foul. In what situations does the end result of the ball play a factor.

If the foul occurs beyond the end of the run, you would enforce from the end of the run.

From your comments, I gather that you're not a football official. Here's a crash course in enforcements.

1. High school rules deploy a concept called the basic spot, and a principle known as all but one.

2. Very simply: the basic spot is the end of the run for running plays and the previous spot for loose ball plays (a couple more precisely defined but not entirely transparent concepts).

3. Enforcement of penalties against the offense or defense is from the basic spot in all cases but one, namely a foul by the offense behind (closer to their goal) the basic spot. Those are enforced from the spot of the foul. All others -- all fouls by the defense, and fouls by the offense beyond the basic spot -- are enforced from the basic spot.

Hope that helps!

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If the foul occurs beyond the end of the run, you would enforce from the end of the run.

From your comments, I gather that you're not a football official. Here's a crash course in enforcements.

1. High school rules deploy a concept called the basic spot, and a principle known as all but one.

2. Very simply: the basic spot is the end of the run for running plays and the previous spot for loose ball plays (a couple more precisely defined but not entirely transparent concepts).

3. Enforcement of penalties against the offense or defense is from the basic spot in all cases but one, namely a foul by the offense behind (closer to their goal) the basic spot. Those are enforced from the spot of the foul. All others -- all fouls by the defense, and fouls by the offense beyond the basic spot -- are enforced from the basic spot.

Hope that helps!

This was a great summary of penalty enforcements by mbyron. This concept is used at all levels of play. Just know at the NCAA and especially at the NFL level, there are exceptions to this rule which is why you may be confused.

[Official]

great explanation

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Official

great explanation

You need to learn the All But One Principle.

[jemiller]

I know that I did not have a forum to bounce these questions off of when I first started. We reviewed the case book, referred back to the rule book, discussed it, and tried to make sense of it logically. Son of a gun if it didn't make sense after while...

No substitute for studying the rule and case book. Of course lower division games are your friends as well. Game situations with a mentor to guide you is very helpful. Sometimes getting it wrong is the best learning tool of all. You just don't want to have that feeling of getting wrong again.

Good luck...Jim