The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Football (https://forum.officiating.com/football/)
-   -   Spot foul penalties (https://forum.officiating.com/football/59012-spot-foul-penalties.html)

Official Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:20pm

Spot foul penalties
 
Just wanting to know a list of the spot foul penalties. When officials throw their flags are they always throwing them at the spot where the foul occoured?

One more thing. Regarding clock stoppage near the sidelines. Obviously the clock stops if a players goes out on his own. What if he's forced out by a defender?

waltjp Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official (Post 691107)
Just wanting to know a list of the spot foul penalties. When officials throw their flags are they always throwing them at the spot where the foul occoured?

Holding and illegal use of hands, illegal blocks, just about any illegal act committed against and opponent; illegal passes, illegal handing, facemask fouls, horse collar, probably others.

Quote:

One more thing. Regarding clock stoppage near the sidelines. Obviously the clock stops if a players goes out on his own. What if he's forced out by a defender?
The clock will continue to run if the contact with the defender halts the runner's forward progress in bounds before forcing him back and out of bounds.

The clock will stop if the runner continues his forward progress after contacting the defender.

Official Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:49pm

so if the offense is at their own 35. a hold occurs at midfield the penalty for a hold is 10 yards and the offense moves up to their own 40?

waltjp Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official (Post 691109)
so if the offense is at their own 35. a hold occurs at midfield the penalty for a hold is 10 yards and the offense moves up to their own 40?

Who's holding? What is the status of the ball during the foul? Where did the play end?

Official Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 691110)
Who's holding? What is the status of the ball during the foul? Where did the play end?

holding on number 53 of the offense. the ball was at the offenses own 47 yl. the play ended at the opponents 42.

waltjp Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:05pm

Let me put this all together so we agree.

A's ball on A's 35. A runs the ball to B's 47. A53 is flagged for holding at midfield.

The basic spot is the end of the run, B's 47. The foul occurred at midfield, behind the basic spot. This is the spot of enforcement.

The 10-yard penalty from midfield put the ball at A's 40. Replay the down if the line to gain has not been achieved after enforcement of the penalty, or 1st down if is has.

Official Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 691112)
Let me put this all together so we agree.

A's ball on A's 35. A runs the ball to B's 47. A53 is flagged for holding at midfield.

The basic spot is the end of the run, B's 47. The foul occurred at midfield, behind the basic spot. This is the spot of enforcement.

The 10-yard penalty from midfield put the ball at A's 40. Replay the down if the line to gain has not been achieved after enforcement of the penalty, or 1st down if is has.

Ok So it is now 1st and 5? It does not matter where the ball ended up. The spot of the foul is all we need for holding correct? The official will throw the flag where the foul occured on all spot fouls? But will just throw his flag randomly on other fouls?

APG Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official (Post 691113)
Ok So it is now 1st and 5? It does not matter where the ball ended up. The spot of the foul is all we need for holding correct? The official will throw the flag where the foul occured on all spot fouls? But will just throw his flag randomly on other fouls?

You'll have an official throw the flag at the spot of the foul for most fouls save for penalties that occur with the snap (offside, illegal formation, illegal shift, etc.) and dead ball penalties. Enforcement of a penalty is dependent on where the foul occurred, what was happening when the play, and where the play ended in relation to the spot of the foul. On your play, assuming it was 1st and 10 from A's 35, after enforcement, it would be 1st and 5 from A's 40. If the line to gain was achieved, it would be first and ten after enforcement.

Official Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 691116)
You'll have an official throw the flag at the spot of the foul for most fouls save for penalties that occur with the snap (offside, illegal formation, illegal shift, etc.) and dead ball penalties. Enforcement of a penalty is dependent on where the foul occurred, what was happening when the play, and where the play ended in relation to the spot of the foul. On your play, assuming it was 1st and 10 from A's 35, after enforcement, it would be 1st and 5 from A's 40. If the line to gain was achieved, it would be first and ten after enforcement.

thank you for that clarification but i'm just not seeing how "where the ball ends up affects the enforcement of a penalty." In this situation we took it from the spot foul. In what situations does the end result of the ball play a factor.

mbyron Sat Sep 04, 2010 07:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official (Post 691117)
thank you for that clarification but i'm just not seeing how "where the ball ends up affects the enforcement of a penalty." In this situation we took it from the spot foul. In what situations does the end result of the ball play a factor.

If the foul occurs beyond the end of the run, you would enforce from the end of the run.

From your comments, I gather that you're not a football official. Here's a crash course in enforcements.

1. High school rules deploy a concept called the basic spot, and a principle known as all but one.

2. Very simply: the basic spot is the end of the run for running plays and the previous spot for loose ball plays (a couple more precisely defined but not entirely transparent concepts).

3. Enforcement of penalties against the offense or defense is from the basic spot in all cases but one, namely a foul by the offense behind (closer to their goal) the basic spot. Those are enforced from the spot of the foul. All others -- all fouls by the defense, and fouls by the offense beyond the basic spot -- are enforced from the basic spot.

Hope that helps!

APG Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 691119)
If the foul occurs beyond the end of the run, you would enforce from the end of the run.

From your comments, I gather that you're not a football official. Here's a crash course in enforcements.

1. High school rules deploy a concept called the basic spot, and a principle known as all but one.

2. Very simply: the basic spot is the end of the run for running plays and the previous spot for loose ball plays (a couple more precisely defined but not entirely transparent concepts).

3. Enforcement of penalties against the offense or defense is from the basic spot in all cases but one, namely a foul by the offense behind (closer to their goal) the basic spot. Those are enforced from the spot of the foul. All others -- all fouls by the defense, and fouls by the offense beyond the basic spot -- are enforced from the basic spot.

Hope that helps!

This was a great summary of penalty enforcements by mbyron. This concept is used at all levels of play. Just know at the NCAA and especially at the NFL level, there are exceptions to this rule which is why you may be confused.

Official Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:06pm

great explanation

BktBallRef Sun Sep 05, 2010 04:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official (Post 691137)
great explanation


You need to learn the All But One Principle.

jemiller Mon Sep 06, 2010 07:45am

I know that I did not have a forum to bounce these questions off of when I first started. We reviewed the case book, referred back to the rule book, discussed it, and tried to make sense of it logically. Son of a gun if it didn't make sense after while...

No substitute for studying the rule and case book. Of course lower division games are your friends as well. Game situations with a mentor to guide you is very helpful. Sometimes getting it wrong is the best learning tool of all. You just don't want to have that feeling of getting wrong again.

Good luck...Jim


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1