K's 52 yard kickoff return for TD...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

We had one similar here a couple years ago and the R insisted it was a TD and his crew couldn't talk him out of it.

Why didn't the covering official kill the play at the time K recovered the muff?

I know my crew is tired of hearing me go over this, but we cover this *every week* in our pregame.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why didn't the covering official kill the play at the time K recovered the muff?

I know my crew is tired of hearing me go over this, but we cover this *every week* in our pregame.

I don't know. Maybe after he thought about it he realized the ball should have been dead at the spot of K's recovery.

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Did you apply the rule about recovering scrimmage kicks behind the neutral zone to a free kick?

Well that was exactly how the crew conference went. JV game, 4 officials, I was R, being 40+ yards away from everything, I thought I knew what happened, but because I wasn't sure, I let the play come at me, and whne K crossed the goal line I signalled touchdown for about a half of second and then just the kill clock signal. I called the crew together. U and HL said that since the ball was recovered behind K's restraining line they could advance. LJ said since R touched it K could could advance, but everybody told him he was wrong. So after about 2 minutes of conference, with me saying ball is dead where K recovers on a free kick, and they arguing opposed, with both teams lining up for the PAT, I regretfully allowed the majority to win out. In the parking lot before we left we read rule 6, and I've prepared a pre-game quiz for this Friday on kicking situations.

So short of having a rule-book on field, which I think tacky, how would you have handled differently, and how would you let the conversation play out. I can honestly say, on a Friday night, I would have argued the point until either the lights went out or the state observer came out of the stands and said, play-on boys.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Well that was exactly how the crew conference went. JV game, 4 officials, I was R, being 40+ yards away from everything, I thought I knew what happened, but because I wasn't sure, I let the play come at me, and whne K crossed the goal line I signalled touchdown for about a half of second and then just the kill clock signal. I called the crew together. U and HL said that since the ball was recovered behind K's restraining line they could advance. LJ said since R touched it K could could advance, but everybody told him he was wrong. So after about 2 minutes of conference, with me saying ball is dead where K recovers on a free kick, and they arguing opposed, with both teams lining up for the PAT, I regretfully allowed the majority to win out. In the parking lot before we left we read rule 6, and I've prepared a pre-game quiz for this Friday on kicking situations.

So short of having a rule-book on field, which I think tacky, how would you have handled differently, and how would you let the conversation play out. I can honestly say, on a Friday night, I would have argued the point until either the lights went out or the state observer came out of the stands and said, play-on boys.

You were the WH? Well, as Tim said, nut up and take charge. That TD doesn't score if *you* don't allow it to score.

[TXMike]

Yep, this is not a democracy. Just ask my white hat.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Yep, this is not a democracy. Just ask my white hat.

I've brought 3 new officials on my crew (one in 2004, one in 2005, and one in 2006) and all three worked their *first* game on Friday night. All are experienced baseball umpires and two of them also work basketball. They knew what it was like to be an official. Just not a football official.

For a few years, I was a dictator, I'll admit it. I was also a trainer, mentor, sounding board, etc. etc. For guys working their 7th, 6th, and 5th seasons I'd put those guys up against officials with 20+ years experience. They wanted to learn to do things the right way and the training I received back in the 90s (in the South) allowed me to help them. And they trusted me to help them and do the right things.

I'm still the white hat and for the most part, I'm just working the referee position during the games now, reading my keys, watching the QB, watching the blocking I'm responsible for, and moving the football when I can. And orchestrating the rest of the crew during measurements and penalty enforcement. But there are times I have to step up and be the crew chief. The coaches certainly see the white hat and think I'm the "head referee in charge" as one coach put it last season.

When you're wearing the white hat, you simply cannot allow a rule to be missed. Shame on the other guys for not being able to recognize the situation, but as the white hat you simply have to ask the crew the right questions and the buck stops with you. In the end when the whispers go around, they'll say it's (white hat's name)'s crew that screwed it up. "Did R ever possess the ball?" If the answer is no, then you have to be able to say to the crew, "Hey, you guys know that K can't advance that. Do you have the recovery spot? You guys know we have to come back there."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Well that was exactly how the crew conference went. JV game, 4 officials, I was R, being 40+ yards away from everything, I thought I knew what happened, but because I wasn't sure, I let the play come at me, and whne K crossed the goal line I signalled touchdown for about a half of second and then just the kill clock signal. I called the crew together. U and HL said that since the ball was recovered behind K's restraining line they could advance. LJ said since R touched it K could could advance, but everybody told him he was wrong. So after about 2 minutes of conference, with me saying ball is dead where K recovers on a free kick, and they arguing opposed, with both teams lining up for the PAT, I regretfully allowed the majority to win out. In the parking lot before we left we read rule 6, and I've prepared a pre-game quiz for this Friday on kicking situations.

So short of having a rule-book on field, which I think tacky, how would you have handled differently, and how would you let the conversation play out. I can honestly say, on a Friday night, I would have argued the point until either the lights went out or the state observer came out of the stands and said, play-on boys.

1) I would know the rules. Apparently you did.
2) I would KNOW that I know the rules.
There's a reason the whitehat wears the white hat - once you heard your crew relay to you what happened, you should have taken the ball and jogged back to U's beanbag, spotted the ball and signalled first down. KNOW that you know the rules and don't let those that don't talk you into a wrong ruling.

If it ever happens that your crew is right and you are wrong - eat crow as you must... but YOU are in charge out there - it's not a democracy. And it's set up that way for a reason.

[Robert Goodman]

I guess I'll never find out whether the officials (different crews) erred in 2 games of BAYF in 2007 in allowing K to recover & advance their own free kick for TDs, or whether that really was a BAYF exception to Fed rules. Our team deserved to give up those scores, though.

[BuckeyeRef]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

So short of having a rule-book on field, which I think tacky, how would you have handled differently, and how would you let the conversation play out. I can honestly say, on a Friday night, I would have argued the point until either the lights went out or the state observer came out of the stands and said, play-on boys.

I know this has been criticized before, but that is why in Ohio the officials are required to have a rule book on the field with them. Had a book been available this mistake would have been avoided.