Carry over foul?

[JRutledge]

Maybe I am tired or just too sore to pay that close attention. I am watching this last game of the night on ESPN and there was a try that had an illegal formation call. They enforced the penalty on the kickoff. Did I miss something, you cannot do that right? I know it might have been a scoring play, but not a carry over foul? I am assuming this is under NF rules too. The game is being played in California.

Peace

[movingthechains]

California uses federation rules. Where in CA was the game played, I was watching the part of the first game in Florida and was surprised to see a 7 man crew because they normally use 5.

[AUgrad2006]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did I miss something, you cannot do that right? I know it might have been a scoring play, but not a carry over foul? I am assuming this is under NF rules too. The game is being played in California.

Peace

You're correct. For fouls by the scoring team, only those fouls which have succeeding-spot enforcement (dead-ball, unsportsmanlike, nonplayer) give the non-scoring team the option to enforce on the kickoff. The correct enforcement for an illegal formation would be 5 yards and re-try unless declined by B.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AUgrad2006

You're correct. For fouls by the scoring team, only those fouls which have succeeding-spot enforcement (dead-ball, unsportsmanlike, nonplayer) give the non-scoring team the option to enforce on the kickoff. The correct enforcement for an illegal formation would be 5 yards and re-try unless declined by B.

This does not apply to only succeeding spot fouls. If there is DPI called and there is a TD scored, that is not a dead ball or unsportsmanlike penalty. Those can be carried over to the try or Kickoff if it applies. This was a try where the kicking team committed a foul and they enforced it on the kickoff. You either replay the down with the penalty or you decline the penalty and accept the points (try was good BTW).

MTC, I am not sure exactly where it was, just know it was the last game on ESPN2 with their all night Friday Night High school marathon.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This does not apply to only succeeding spot fouls. If there is DPI called and there is a TD scored, that is not a dead ball or unsportsmanlike penalty. Those can be carried over to the try or Kickoff if it applies. This was a try where the kicking team committed a foul and they enforced it on the kickoff. You either replay the down with the penalty or you decline the penalty and accept the points (try was good BTW).

MTC, I am not sure exactly where it was, just know it was the last game on ESPN2 with their all night Friday Night High school marathon.

Peace

J - AU was specifically referring to fouls committed by the scoring team. DPI would be by the scored upon team.

I think you're right that the play in question was screwed up. Just goes to show... put two extra officials on the field because the game is on TV, and your crew's brains go out the window. Ask LL.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

J - AU was specifically referring to fouls committed by the scoring team. DPI would be by the scored upon team.

I agree but I was not talking about that kind of foul.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think you're right that the play in question was screwed up. Just goes to show... put two extra officials on the field because the game is on TV, and your crew's brains go out the window. Ask LL.

I understand and I was not being critical of them. I just thought I missed something in this rule. I gave a presentation on Penalty Enforcement at our big camp we hold in the Chicago area and wanted to know did I not read something correctly. I have to repeat that presentation later next week so I wanted to make sure I had all the angles.

Peace

[Reffing Rev.]

I've explained it like this...

Any live ball foul committed against the scoring team when there is not a change of possession, or after they gained final possession may always be enforced at the succeeding spot.

For any foul, including the above if the succeeding spot is a try to be followed by a kickoff then such foul may be enforced on said kickoff.

Here is why I explain it this way:
Score A-0 B-8, last timed down of the game A's pass is complete for a touchdown while B1 commits a DPI foul. That foul may be enforced on the succeeding spot the try, but not overtime as there is no kickoff in overtime.

During the try from the B1.5 A completes a pass in the end zone while B1 is again flagged for DPI. That foul may still be enforced on the succeeding spot, the first play in overtime.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe I am tired or just too sore to pay that close attention. I am watching this last game of the night on ESPN and there was a try that had an illegal formation call. They enforced the penalty on the kickoff. Did I miss something, you cannot do that right? I know it might have been a scoring play, but not a carry over foul? I am assuming this is under NF rules too. The game is being played in California.

Peace

CANADIAN RULING:

This foul can be applied on the convert re-attempt (if successful) or the KO, and can induce a kickoff (if the convert attempt was after the TD was scored with zeroes on the clock).