5 man mechanics

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What my state asks and what is best are one in the same if you ask me.

Since most passes in high school football are 10 to 15 yards at best, I feel you should not flow at all until all receivers cross your vision and only move cautiously if at all in this situation. If the pass is thrown it is likely to be in front of you and moving will just put you in the middle of the play or too close to judge ball and feet on a sideline play. Moving down field is not productive when passes are mostly short. And if they are deep, that is what the back judge is for.

Peace

Times change. When I started working football a few decades ago, we ran with the receivers. Now I have to keep reminding my wings to hold the line of scrimmage until the first receivers are 10+ yards downfield (which I believe is actually an official NFHS mechanic for the first time this season). And I would still like the wing on the side of the BJ to hold even longer. And I'm even deeper and wider as the WH than most of the officials I see in the highlights on TV. I can run with the QB, but I get a better look at *everything* with a little distance.

I really believe that most HS officials get too close to the play, in order to "keep up." This preseason, I've been working on getting the wings on my crew to really embrace working behind the runner and leaving a good cushion -- also using cross-field mechanics and letting the wing opposite get the spots, when possible -- freeing the wing on the side the ball comes to so he can stay back deeper with a better field of vision.

First game (JV) tonight, first varsity game tomorrow. It's about time.

[NWA_UMP]

We are working something new this season. If you are the wing on the throwing arm side of the QB you hold the line...if your not you release 5-7 yards down the sideline and read the throw, if there is one. The wing that releases reads the pass to stay behind the receiver and box in with the BJ. Our crew chief is a DI NCAA WH and I guess this is a college type mechanic that we are adapting to High School.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by NWA_UMP

We are working something new this season. If you are the wing on the throwing arm side of the QB you hold the line...if your not you release 5-7 yards down the sideline and read the throw, if there is one. The wing that releases reads the pass to stay behind the receiver and box in with the BJ. Our crew chief is a DI NCAA WH and I guess this is a college type mechanic that we are adapting to High School.

Just for my information - why key off the passing arm of the QB? Is there a greater tendency for him to throw that way as opposed to the other? Just trying to grasp the concept. Thanks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NWA_UMP

We are working something new this season. If you are the wing on the throwing arm side of the QB you hold the line...if your not you release 5-7 yards down the sideline and read the throw, if there is one. The wing that releases reads the pass to stay behind the receiver and box in with the BJ. Our crew chief is a DI NCAA WH and I guess this is a college type mechanic that we are adapting to High School.

That is not a college mechanic. The wings in college (or 7 man) hold their line of scrimmage on just about every play but a running play. And on a running play they allow the runner to pass them by then follow the play for forward progress.

Then my next question is how is your HS crew chief a D1 official? Those guys have to be at the game site the day before their college games if the game is on Saturday. At least that is how it is with guys in the Midwestern Conferences at that level. Not saying you are lying just is not possible here to have a guy that works a high school schedule (on Friday) and then turn around and work a college game in D1 the next day.

Peace

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is not a college mechanic. The wings in college (or 7 man) hold their line of scrimmage on just about every play but a running play. And on a running play they allow the runner to pass them by then follow the play for forward progress.


Peace

No longer true. College is going to something similar to the NFL. On obvious pass plays the HL is to drift about 5yds down field. The LJ is to drift about 2 yds into the backfield.

In answer to the OP, the mech for our 5 man around here is the wings drift downfield but should not go beyond the shortest route receiver on their side of the field.
And until now, I don't think I've heard anyone, anywhere think "working back to the ball" is a good way to go.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Mike L

And until now, I don't think I've heard anyone, anywhere think "working back to the ball" is a good way to go.

It's a good way to go...if you want to get tangled in the middle of the play on your sideline.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by NWA_UMP

We are working something new this season. If you are the wing on the throwing arm side of the QB you hold the line...if your not you release 5-7 yards down the sideline and read the throw, if there is one. The wing that releases reads the pass to stay behind the receiver and box in with the BJ. Our crew chief is a DI NCAA WH and I guess this is a college type mechanic that we are adapting to High School.

Frankly, I don't get this. If anyone should hold, it's the wing on the side favored by the back judge (using whatever criteria are used).

Personally, I don't see why both wings don't hold a bit longer. In the HS game, most plays are running plays and blindly running downfield at the snap puts the wings at a horrible place to observe running plays. Plays to a wing's side are best observed from behind with a good cushion so the official has a good, wide view of the blocking. And the wing should be picking up the nearside tackle if he engages with a defender. You can't do that if you're running downfield blindly at the snap.

[mj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Times change. When I started working football a few decades ago, we ran with the receivers. Now I have to keep reminding my wings to hold the line of scrimmage until the first receivers are 10+ yards downfield (which I believe is actually an official NFHS mechanic for the first time this season). And I would still like the wing on the side of the BJ to hold even longer. And I'm even deeper and wider as the WH than most of the officials I see in the highlights on TV. I can run with the QB, but I get a better look at *everything* with a little distance.

I really believe that most HS officials get too close to the play, in order to "keep up." This preseason, I've been working on getting the wings on my crew to really embrace working behind the runner and leaving a good cushion -- also using cross-field mechanics and letting the wing opposite get the spots, when possible -- freeing the wing on the side the ball comes to so he can stay back deeper with a better field of vision.

First game (JV) tonight, first varsity game tomorrow. It's about time.

Interesting thoughts, especially using cross-field mechanics for spots.

Same for me for tonight and tomorrow and the weather should be fantastic.

[parepat]

I think I disagree with most of the posts here. Assuming both the official and a player can run a 6 second forty they can cover 10 yards in a second and a half. Thus, if an official is 20 yards ahead of a play and needs to come back the play. He can get within 10 yards of the runner within 3/4ths of a second. However, once a player is beyond you, you will never get closer to the play. On a 50 yard play it is unlikely that you will be able to see a close out of bounds play. THus, I believe that by moving down field, the official has a better opportunity to be in good position for more plays. Therefore, I would have my wings head down 15 yards if not threatened and work back to the ball.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE=parepat;690295]

Originally Posted by parepat

I think I disagree with most of the posts here. Assuming both are the official and a player can run a 6 second forty they can cover 10 yards in a second and a half. Thus, if an official is 20 yards ahead of a play and needs to come back the play. He can get within 10 yards of the runner within 3/4ths of a second. However, once a player is beyond you, you will never get closer to the play. One a 50 yard play it is unlikely that you will be able to see a close out of bounds play.

The Back Judge has the goal line, not the wing in that case. All you have is the sideline and if the player steps out of bounds you should be able to see that fact. The Back Judge is closer to the play and expected to. But then again most plays are not 50 yards in the air. They are often 10 or 15 yards ahead at most.

And I have seen an example in our state finals where an official tried to get ahead of the play and was on top of a play near the sideline when the player caught a pass about 10 yards beyond the LOS and then ended up running into the official and the player had to be carried off because of a neck injury by the way he ran into the official on the sideline.

Originally Posted by parepat

THus, I believe that by moving down field, the official has a better opportunity to be in good position for more plays. Therefore, I would have my wings head down 15 yards if not threatened and work back to the ball.

Closer is not better. It never is. To see a catch you might need to have a wider perspective to see the entire play anyway. If that was the case then the Back Judge would want to be right next to the receiver at all times. But that would mean you would be more worried about not getting involved in the play instead of trying to cover the play properly. And also using your logic, you are not going to stay with the players even if you are there next to them. They will beat you down the field anyway. So why be right next to them in the first place. No one said not to move once the pass is made. But you can wait until the ball is thrown. It is not going to hurt you.

You have a right to disagree, but I have seen on tape many plays where officials are right in the middle of plays and clearly miss the catch, no catch or they get hurt because when the player gets knocked out of bounds they have nowhere to go as the players fall at their feet. And then again they miss a spot or they get run over by others running at that player.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by parepat

I think I disagree with most of the posts here. Assuming both are the official and a player can run a 6 second forty they can cover 10 yards in a second and a half. Thus, if an official is 20 yards ahead of a play and needs to come back the play. He can get within 10 yards of the runner within 3/4ths of a second. However, once a player is beyond you, you will never get closer to the play. One a 50 yard play it is unlikely that you will be able to see a close out of bounds play. THus, I believe that by moving down field, the official has a better opportunity to be in good position for more plays. Therefore, I would have my wings head down 15 yards if not threatened and work back to the ball.

Two things for you - 1) if you disagree with MOST of the people here on a mechanic, there's probably a reason, and if I were in your shoes I'd wonder why I was doing it wrong. 2) what you suggest is a fantastic way to get caught up in the middle of a sweep, screen, or rollout, and have NO view of the play. A mechanic created so that you have a better view on a 50-yard play at the expense of a worse view on most shorter plays is going to hinder you more often than it helps. The wing does not ever want to be AHEAD of the action (at least not with 5 or greater man mechanics)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The wing does not ever want to be AHEAD of the action (at least not with 5 or greater man mechanics)

Wings are not supposed to be ahead of the play in even 6 or 7 man mechanics. They follow the play and they have forward progress all the way to near the goal line in most cases (depending on the location of the LOS and goal line). So what he suggests is not even done at the college or NFL levels with 1 or 2 more official on the field.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Wings are not supposed to be ahead of the play in even 6 or 7 man mechanics. They follow the play and they have forward progress all the way to near the goal line in most cases (depending on the location of the LOS and goal line). So what he suggests is not even done at the college or NFL levels with 1 or 2 more official on the field.

Peace

Thanks for the help there... but I'm pretty sure that both the number 6 and the number 7 are "greater than 5".

[With_Two_Flakes]

Gotta disagree with parepat's reasoning.

Most of the times I got into trouble back in the day was being ahead and working back "against the grain". Ditto most of the times guys I've assessed have got into trouble is when they have been ahead and working back to the ball.