What is the foul?

[bigjohn]

"The previous rule requiring each offensive player to be within 15 yards of the ball was inconsistently applied, as it contained no easily verifiable fixed reference point for officials to administer."

[bigjohn]

So Rich, your crew doesn't have a case book?



3.7.5 SITUATION: Substitute (a) A1, or (b) B1, noticing his team has only 10
players on the field, comes onto the field just as the ball is about to be snapped.
RULING: In (a), A1 must be on the field on A’s side of the neutral zone, inside the
9-yard marks, and not violate the shift or motion provisions. Furthermore, the act
of his coming onto the field must not deceive the defensive team. In (b), the substitution
is legal as long as B1 is on the field on B’s side of the neutral zone prior
to the snap. (3-7-6; 7-2-1,6,7; 9-6-4)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

So Rich, your crew doesn't have a case book?



3.7.5 SITUATION: Substitute (a) A1, or (b) B1, noticing his team has only 10
players on the field, comes onto the field just as the ball is about to be snapped.
RULING: In (a), A1 must be on the field on A’s side of the neutral zone, inside the
9-yard marks, and not violate the shift or motion provisions. Furthermore, the act
of his coming onto the field must not deceive the defensive team. In (b), the substitution
is legal as long as B1 is on the field on B’s side of the neutral zone prior
to the snap. (3-7-6; 7-2-1,6,7; 9-6-4)

I'm telling you exactly how we handle it. If you don't like it, too bad.

[bigjohn]

OK, I can respect that. If no one covers A22, do you call illegal substitution?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

OK, I can respect that. If no one covers A22, do you call illegal substitution?

Depends on the circumstances, really. But I've not had any teams run anything deceptive in this regard.

Come to think of it, we had this on a punt play a few years ago, and we flagged it for illegal formation (nobody covered the gunner, who wasn't inside, and the wing flagged it in case it was a designed fake -- the penalty was declined as it was a poor punt).

The rule has good intentions behind it, but the reality is that it takes time to reset after a play and when a team runs without a huddle (especially with no substitutions) there's no real reason to expect the team to meet the letter of this rule. I've not met a crew who does expect it, either.

I'm sure at least 10 officials will now post and say they do expect it, but it just proves that almost all officiating (despite national rules) is local.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

OK, I can respect that. If no one covers A22, do you call illegal substitution?

If it is a foul, it'd either be illegal participation or illegal formation.

[kdf5]

Illegal formation, 7-2-1 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play, each player of A who participated in the previous down and each substitute for A must have been, momentarily, between the 9-yard marks, before the snap.

PENALTY: Illegal formation (Arts. 1, 2, 3) – (S19);

It can't be illegal substitution. Which one of these did he violate?

3-7 Substitutions

ART. 1 . . . Between downs any number of eligible substitutes may replace players. Replaced players shall leave the field immediately.
ART. 2 . . . A player, replaced player or a substitute is required to leave the field at the side on which his team box is located and go directly to his team box.
ART. 3 . . . During the same dead-ball interval, no substitute shall become a player and then withdraw and no player shall withdraw and re-enter as a substitute unless a penalty is accepted, a dead-ball foul occurs, there is a charged time-out or the period ends.
ART. 4 . . . During a down a replaced player or substitute who attempts unsuccessfully to leave the field and who does not participate in or affect the play, constitutes an illegal substitution.
NOTE: Participation by a replaced player or substitute is illegal participation as in 9-6.
ART. 5 . . . An entering substitute shall be on his team’s side of the neutral zone when the ball is snapped or free kicked.
ART. 6 . . . During a down, a replaced player or substitute who enters the field, but does not participate, constitutes illegal substitution.

PENALTY: Illegal substitution (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) – (S22); (Arts. 1, 2, 3) dead-ball foul – (S7-22); (Arts. 4, 5) live-ball foul – 5 yards; (Art. 6) non-player foul – 5 yards (S22)

Possibly Illegal Participation:

9-6-4d...d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

[Jim D.]

John, it's the same foul here as on the NFHS board - Illegal formation.

[bigjohn]

3.7.5 says that A players are illegal substitutes unless they are on their teams side of the ball, have been inside the 9's before the snap and not in violation of illegal motion or shift.

RULING: In (a), A1 must be on the field on A’s side of the neutral zone, inside the
9-yard marks, and not violate the shift or motion provisions. Furthermore, the act
of his coming onto the field must not deceive the defensive team.


In (b), the substitution
is legal as long as B1 is on the field on B’s side of the neutral zone prior
to the snap.

If B is Legal A must be ILLEGAL unless all requirements are met!



It says for B there are no restrictions other than being on their side of the ball.

ART. 5 . . . An entering substitute shall be on his team’s side of the neutral zone

when the ball is snapped or free kicked.



The casebook is saying there is more to this rule than written! Rule 3-7-5 needs to be edited so officials will call it the way the casebook says to call it.