The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 16, 2009, 10:18am
Broadcaster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LaGrange, Ga.
Posts: 361
Another end zone rationale question

I saw both situations in a game. The correct ruling was administered, but I'm curious as to the "why."

62 yard TD run and the ball carriers launches himself and does a mid-air somersault into the end zone. When he comes down, the ball becomes dislodged after hitting the ground. 15 yard USC penalty, but the TD stands.

Later that game a 20 yard pass into the end zone. Same player that made the earlier TD dives for the ball, grabs it, pulls it into his body, then hits the ground where the ball becomes dislodged. Incomplete pass. He had as much control of the ball after the catch as he did when somersaulting into the end zone on the run.

The officials called it right by the rule book, AFAIK, but I'm curious why the running play is a TD but the pass play is an incomplete pass. What's the reason behind those rules?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 16, 2009, 10:41am
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoflg View Post
I saw both situations in a game. The correct ruling was administered, but I'm curious as to the "why."

62 yard TD run and the ball carriers launches himself and does a mid-air somersault into the end zone. When he comes down, the ball becomes dislodged after hitting the ground. 15 yard USC penalty, but the TD stands.

Later that game a 20 yard pass into the end zone. Same player that made the earlier TD dives for the ball, grabs it, pulls it into his body, then hits the ground where the ball becomes dislodged. Incomplete pass. He had as much control of the ball after the catch as he did when somersaulting into the end zone on the run.

The officials called it right by the rule book, AFAIK, but I'm curious why the running play is a TD but the pass play is an incomplete pass. What's the reason behind those rules?
As soon as a runner with posession breaks the plane of the goal-line with the ball, it is a touchdown. Nothing that happens after that can change that.

In your pass play sitch, the player is required to maintain possession after returning to the ground.

2-4-1
Quote:
A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds or being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball.

Last edited by RadioBlue; Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 01:06pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 16, 2009, 12:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,621
That's actually 2-4-1 (with hyphens to denote a rule, rather than dots to denote a case).

And yes, that answers voice's question: the runner has possession as the ball breaks the plane, but the receiver must demonstrate possession after coming down with the ball in order to make a catch.

To put it differently: on the running play, the ball is dead once the ball breaks the plane of the EZ, hence no fumble. On the pass play, the ball is not dead until it is caught in the EZ, which doesn't happen until after the player returns to the ground with possession.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 16, 2009, 01:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 88
It's important to recognize that these are two distinct rules for each of these two plays. In the first play, the question is, "Is the ball live or dead?"

Rule 4-2-2 lists the events which cause a live ball to become dead. Among these are:
a. When a runner goes out of bounds, is held so his forward progress is stopped or allows any part of his person other than hand or foot to touch the ground.
h. When any score occurs.

Rule 8-2-1a: "It is a touchdown when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent's goal line."

A player with possession of the ball is a runner. The ball penetrated the plane of the goal line during the somersault. Touchdown. Per 4-2-2h, the bal is dead. Say he mistimed his jump and came down at the 2-yard line. When he touched the ground with possession of the ball, the ball is dead per 4-2-2a. The fact that the ball comes out immediately afterwards is irrelevant.

For your second play, the question is, "Did the receiver catch the ball?"

Rule 2-4-1 has been quoted here. Since the receiver did not maintain possession after going to the ground, he did not complete the catch. Without a catch, there is no possession and therefore no runner. Therefore, 4-2-2a, 4-2-2h and 8-2-1a do not apply. When the ball touches the ground, it is an incomplete pass.

I wish they would change 2-4-1 to reflect the difference between control and possession. While the receiver controlled the ball in the air, he did not officially have possession until he landed on the ground while keeping control.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kicks into the endzone: rationale RadioBlue Football 16 Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:45pm
End Zone Pylon Question richredskin Football 7 Tue Feb 07, 2006 08:33pm
OBR Balk Rule history/rationale question Rich Ives Baseball 19 Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:27pm
Rationale Please Chuck Lewis Basketball 1 Thu Nov 06, 2003 01:17am
Rationale Please Just Curious Basketball 10 Wed Nov 28, 2001 12:47pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1