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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 01:29pm
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TD + Block in the back + USC

We had the following situation today:

Team A fumbled on B30, the ball was recovered by Team B and they run a TD. During the return - the runner was already about 20 yards away (with no one in front and no one near/behind of him) there was a Block in the Back by team B. As well a frustrated Team A player (because of the fumble & the long return run) took of his helmet and walked to his team area. This all happened during the TD run. The BJ reported an USC for talking off the helmet during the play. The Ump reported the BIB as a personal foul.

I think we messed up the enforcement. We didn't gave the TD and offset the 2 penalties. 1st down Team B on the spot of the BIB.

Comments are welcome ...
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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 01:40pm
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You cannot have offsetting penalties under NF rules. But the problem is I do not know if that is what you are using from a rules point of view.

If you have the BIB during the run, you enforce that from the spot of the foul. The USC is treated like a dead ball foul and is enforced after you have enforced the BIB call. Then you give the ball to Team B first and 10 from the end of all enforcements. I think the same applies for NCAA Rules, but do not quote me on that one yet.

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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 01:45pm
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we use NCAA rules

BIB enforced as a normal BIB or a personal foul: I know there is 5yrds difference in the enforcement - but in this call would it have made any difference but the 5yrds to enforce it as a normal BIB or personal foul?

Last edited by ML99; Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 01:53pm.
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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ML99 View Post
we use NCAA rules

BIB enforced as a normal BIB or a personal foul: I know there is 5yrds difference in the enforcement - but in this call would it have made any difference but the 5yrds to enforce it as a normal BIB or personal foul?
These fouls do not offset -- the PF is a spot foul, and the USC is succeeding spot -- but if the PF happened outside the A15, the yardage penalties will cancel out. B will end up with the ball at the spot of the PF.

You should not call a "normal" BIB this far away from the play. A "normal" BIB so far from the runner provides no advantage. Flag as a PF if you judge that the contact is severe, otherwise talk to the kid.
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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 03:31pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
You should not call a "normal" BIB this far away from the play. A "normal" BIB so far from the runner provides no advantage. Flag as a PF if you judge that the contact is severe, otherwise talk to the kid.
The contact doesn't have to be severe to be a foul.
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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 06:13pm
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Originally Posted by LDUB View Post
The contact doesn't have to be severe to be a foul.
Yes it does.
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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 07:00pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Yes it does.
Do you have some sort of reference for that?

It doesn't take severe contact to knock someone to the ground when they are not expecting to be hit.
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Old Sat Oct 31, 2009, 08:28pm
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Originally Posted by LDUB View Post
Do you have some sort of reference for that?

It doesn't take severe contact to knock someone to the ground when they are not expecting to be hit.
If they're knocked to the ground, IMO that's severe.
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Old Sun Nov 01, 2009, 06:10am
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thanks for your feedback ! After I read your comments - the correct enforcement makes sense to me.

Last edited by ML99; Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 06:12am.
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Old Sun Nov 01, 2009, 09:19am
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so no matter what order those 2 fouls occured, is it correct that you will enforce the block in the back first? nfhs rules.
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Old Sun Nov 01, 2009, 05:38pm
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Originally Posted by yankeesfan View Post
so no matter what order those 2 fouls occured, is it correct that you will enforce the block in the back first? nfhs rules.

Yes, because the BIB is a live ball foul. Dead ball fouls are enforced after live ball fouls.
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