Right Call or Wrong Call

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Question for you guys?

Since the kick never crossed the LOS, could Team A have kicked it again?

NFHS: Yes. In fact, it does not matter whether or not the ball crosses the line of scrimmage or (expanded) neutral zone. If the player is in or behind the neutral zone prior to a change of team possession, he may make a legal kick. (6-2-1)

NCAA: Yes. However, it does matter that the kick did not cross the netural zone, as K cannot advance a scrimmage kick that does, regardless of where they recover it. (6-3-6-a)

If so, does it matter that the holder's knee is on the ground?

NFHS: Yes, it does matter. The holder is exempt from 4-2-2a when he catches or recovers the snap with a knee on the ground. After the kick, this exemption no longer applies, because he caught or recovered a kick, not the snap. (4-2-2a, Exception 1)

He may still hold the ball for a second legal place kick, but he may not touch the ground with any part of his person other than his hand or foot.

NCAA: As I read 4-1-3-b, the kicker may put his knee back down as long as a teammate is in position to kick the ball.

I'm no NCAA rules expert, so someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Yes, it does matter. The holder is exempt from 4-2-2a when he catches or recovers the snap. After the kick, this exemption no longer applies.

He may still hold the ball for a second legal place kick, but he may not touch the ground with any part of his person other than his hand or foot.

NCAA rules are different, I think. I'll have to look those up.

I looked up NCAA Rule 4-1-3-b,

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot [Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or is in position to kick the ball
held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or
advanced by rule] (A.R. 4-1-3-I).


I would think if the play in question occurred in a NCAA game, the question of the holder's knee being on the ground would not result in the ball being declared dead...but I could be wrong.

[Johnny Ringo]

So, if the holder's knee is on the ground when he gains control - is the ball dead at this point?

[mv7267]

I asked on another board, is it a Michigan mechanic to have only the BJ under for scrimmage kick scoring attempts?

The topic was brought up at a local meeting here and the call from Columbus said always two officials on any kick for score, 3pt or PAT.

It looked to me that the crew didn't know what to do. They were content to have the game end after the blocked FG. This a perfect example of why our crew says to each other before any FG attempt, "The ball is live until it crosses the goal line."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

So, if the holder's knee is on the ground when he gains control - is the ball dead at this point?

When he gains control of a blocked kick, yes.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by mbyron

When he gains control of a blocked kick, yes.

Just curious, is there a supporting rule for this response?

If the ball did not cross the LOS and the ball can still be kicked, why is the ball dead "when (the holder) gains control of a blocked kick" while his knee is on the ground?

[Mike L]

Because the exception to NFHS rule 4-2-2 for the holder only applies to his receiving a snap.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Because the exception to NFHS rule 4-2-2 for the holder only applies to his receiving a snap.

Gotcha! Thanks!

Does anyone see any such restrictions in NCAA rules?

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Gotcha! Thanks!

Does anyone see any such restrictions in NCAA rules?

the only restriction in NCAA seems to be there still must be someone in position to kick the ball while the holder is in control with knee on ground. Pretty slim chance of that after a blocked kick.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

the only restriction in NCAA seems to be there still must be someone in position to kick the ball while the holder is in control with knee on ground. Pretty slim chance of that after a blocked kick.

Actually I'd say a pretty good chance of the kicker's still being in position to kick the ball. Pretty slim chance of its working, though.