Punts

[stegenref]

So I've been studying punts a lot the last few days...seems to me like these are the most common scenarios of what could happen and what I (as a back judge) should do during each of them.

- R1 catches punt and starts running with it...I need to bean bag the spot where he gained possession.
- R1 signals for a fair catch and catches it...I need to blow my whistle and bean bag the spot.
- R1 tries to catch the punt, but muffs it. K can recover, but not advance.
- R1 catches it, starts to run, but fumbles. K can recover and advance. I should bean bag the end of the kick (where R1 gained possession) and also bean bag the spot of the fumble.
- If K1 touches the ball before R1 touches it, I should bean bag it as first touching, since R could choose to take the ball there. If R then gains possession, I also have to bean bag that spot as well.
- If ball goes out of bound, I need to blow my whistle and mark the spot.

Anything else?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by stegenref

- R1 signals for a fair catch and catches it...I need to blow my whistle and bean bag the spot.

No reason to use a bean bag.

[Reffing Rev.]

Some officials are pavlovian...

there was a kick

it has to end somewhere

Wherever it ends a bean bag is dropped

We might not "need" a bean bag, but technically speaking it is the end of the kick.

At least he wasn't dropping bean bags at R's muffs.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LDUB

No reason to use a bean bag.

Maybe not, but I always drop one and then signal the timeout.

2 reasons:

(1) I always bag the end of a kick.
(2) Dropping the bag first provides a routine -- bag first, then whistle. If I bag this, then there's no chance I'll ever IW since I won't throw the bag until I'm certain of possession.

What's it hurt? The bag's in my hand, it signals the end of the kick, I drop it.

[stegenref]

What are you looking at as the ball is coming into the receiver? Are you watching the receiver or the approaching K players or both?

[jTheUmp]

Another thing to remember... if a punt (or missed field goal) goes into the end zone, it is a touchback, no matter what else happens.

Had this happen in a game I was working the other day:
K punts, R1 muffs the punt at approximate R's 7-yard line. The ball rolls to about the 1/2 yard line, where K2 attempts to recover it. K2 bobbles the ball, and does not secure possession until he (and the ball) are in the end zone. Touchback.

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by stegenref

What are you looking at as the ball is coming into the receiver? Are you watching the receiver or the approaching K players or both?

I watch the ball come off the foot, just long enough to know the general area its headed. then my eyes dont come off the return man until the ball gets there. yes, I could miss an illegal block in teh back, but I'm counting on my linejudge (who released after the snap) to help me with that. I can't risk missing a fair catch signal.

speaking of which, OP, that's one other thing to look for: the invalid signal. usually either a last-second wrist flick, or the "get away, Poison!" motion.

these can be tricky, especially in the case of the former, where the kid thinks he's signaling, but Team A might not realize that. so you want to "protect" that player from getting destroyed and kill the play as soon as he catches the kick. (but don't be so quick to protect him that you blow the whistle as he's muffing it!)

one other thing: remember that if anyone on Team B gives a signal--valid or invalid--and the punt is caught/recovered by anyone on Team B, it's a dead ball.

(I'm in Mass., with ncaa rules. I can't be certain if any of the above differs from Fed)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

so you want to "protect" that player from getting destroyed and kill the play as soon as he catches the kick. (but don't be so quick to protect him that you blow the whistle as he's muffing it!)

I think this is a recipe for an inevitable IW. Do not think you are protecting anyone. If the kid gets hit due to an invalid signal, it's not your job to "protect" him -- penalize the invalid signal and move on. If it's a valid signal, the *signal* gives him protection, not your whistle.

An IW on a muffed punt is one of the absolute worst things that can happen -- so much so that I stress this every week when we pregame. It's the signal that offers the protection, the catch that kills the play, and the whistle simply acknowledges that after the fact.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by stegenref

What are you looking at as the ball is coming into the receiver? Are you watching the receiver or the approaching K players or both?

Who you are looking at depends on who you are. If you're the BJ (5 man) or LJ (4 man) your focus is on the catch and the termination of the kick. Your crewmates are covering the blockers.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Maybe not, but I always drop one and then signal the timeout.

2 reasons:

(1) I always bag the end of a kick.
(2) Dropping the bag first provides a routine -- bag first, then whistle. If I bag this, then there's no chance I'll ever IW since I won't throw the bag until I'm certain of possession.

What's it hurt? The bag's in my hand, it signals the end of the kick, I drop it.

Every crew I've ever worked with has always bagged them. I've had more than my share of extra curriculars at the end of a kick, as well as downfield action at the end of the play where players displace me, the ball, or both. If there's a penalty in the vicinity, especially by you as the BJ...you have the spot with the bag and don't have to worry about action by players, the ball, and a host of other things if you've got your bag doing the work for you. Just my opinion...and I agree on the mechanics end of it too. Maybe it's a WI thing, Rich.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

What's it hurt? The bag's in my hand, it signals the end of the kick, I drop it.

Key point from RichMSN here that maybe some folks might skim past and miss as they read it. The bag is in your hand ready before the ball is even snapped.

Carrying it in your hand feels different to downs 1, 2 and 3 and helps you to remember to drop it. When assessing a crew, the times I see someone forget to bag the end of a kick or a first touching / illegal touching is when they don't have it in their hand.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by LDUB

No reason to use a bean bag.

I always see BJ's on TV (NCAA and NFL) drop the bean bag first, then blow the whistle- even on fair catches.

[BoBo]

be aware if your receiver signals for a fair catch he does not block anyone on the kicking team, if so you have an illegal block.

i too would bean bag the fair catch. i think your reasoning is very good and a good routine as well.

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by stegenref

So I've been studying punts a lot the last few days...seems to me like these are the most common scenarios of what could happen and what I (as a back judge) should do during each of them.

- R1 catches punt and starts running with it...I need to bean bag the spot where he gained possession.
- R1 signals for a fair catch and catches it...I need to blow my whistle and bean bag the spot.
- R1 tries to catch the punt, but muffs it. K can recover, but not advance.
- R1 catches it, starts to run, but fumbles. K can recover and advance. I should bean bag the end of the kick (where R1 gained possession) and also bean bag the spot of the fumble.
- If K1 touches the ball before R1 touches it, I should bean bag it as first touching, since R could choose to take the ball there. If R then gains possession, I also have to bean bag that spot as well.
- If ball goes out of bound, I need to blow my whistle and mark the spot.

Anything else?

Don't think these are very common, but they could happen...

1)R1 catches the scrimmage kick and starts running, then waves is hand over his head.
fill in you answer here:___________________________

2) R1 signals for a fair catch, lets the ball go and blocks K44 to prevent him from downing the ball.
fill in you answer here:___________________________

Other things to think about are the those things that can happen near the goal line (plane). Like where the ball is when R1 tries to catch/recovery the scrimmage kick.

[NorCalRef12]

Originally Posted by Theisey

1)R1 catches the scrimmage kick and starts running, then waves is hand over his head.
fill in you answer here:___________________________

2) R1 signals for a fair catch, lets the ball go and blocks K44 to prevent him from downing the ball.
fill in you answer here:___________________________

Here is another one I just saw last week.

R1 is near the sideline at the R 20 yard line. The ball bounces up to around chest level where, and this is the best way I can describe it, he pushes the ball out of bounds at the R25 yard line. It looked like a "set" from volleyball.