Holding

[phansen]

If the kids and coaches figure out that you are not going to call holding away from the ball, what do you think will happen? Every kid who is away from the ball will hold and be taught bytheir coach to hold. Are you sure the defender couldn't make the tackle on a cutback run or a reverse? What will you tell the kid being held?

I would guess that the defender being held would want to inflict some sort of vigilate justice if you tell him you're not calling holding away from the ball.
If your reasoning for not calling holding away from the play is that "he couldn't make the play anyway" then why does the blocker have to hold? The defender can't make the play, right?


IF he's holding away from the ball, sure, talk to him the first time. If he continues, call it like you're suppose to. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say to only call holding at the point of attack.

[Refsmitty]

I work with a linesman that puts more effort into avoiding calls and the controversy that goes with it than he does in calling a good game. For younger refs like me (experience wise) it is very difficult to see it and then try to decide whether or not to call it. I have decided that if I see it and it is a foul or a penalty - I'm coming out with yellow!

[mbyron]

I think that the crucial concept here is advantage/disadvantage. Although the rules don't use it, the traditions of enforcement that I observe at every level do. If a lineman is holding 10 yards from the point of attack, what advantage has he gained? None: that hold doesn't warrant a flag (though I might tell the lineman that he'd get a flag if the ball came his way).

So I guess I distinguish between the guy who fails to throw his flag simply to avoid controversy and the guy who holds his flag because the play didn't deserve one. Although neither has thrown a flag, only one has good judgment.

[LarryRc]

All the holds we called were either point of attack or pass block situations.
IF we called every hold in that game they would have had negative yards. It was ugly.

After having our meeting last night, we discovered there is another school using this technique. And they had several penaltys also.
Our commish. has sent a letter to all schools we service that if this technique is taught and we see it we will continue to be flagged.

Heres the kicker, the coach teaching this told us he was a official from another state for 20 years. Why do ex officials always make the worst coaches?

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by phansen

If the kids and coaches figure out that you are not going to call holding away from the ball, what do you think will happen? Every kid who is away from the ball will hold and be taught bytheir coach to hold. Are you sure the defender couldn't make the tackle on a cutback run or a reverse? What will you tell the kid being held?

I would guess that the defender being held would want to inflict some sort of vigilate justice if you tell him you're not calling holding away from the ball.
If your reasoning for not calling holding away from the play is that "he couldn't make the play anyway" then why does the blocker have to hold? The defender can't make the play, right?


IF he's holding away from the ball, sure, talk to him the first time. If he continues, call it like you're suppose to. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say to only call holding at the point of attack.

I see your concern, but I don't think any of us would tell the kid "we are not calling holding away from the ball."

It is, as Mbyron, says a matter of good judgement to do some preventive officiating and to throw flags that affect the play (i.e. give advantage or cause disadvantage).
One of the things we use to consider on my old college crew was "does the hold take away the feet of the opponent?" Once again just because a grab occurs does not mean it warrants a flag, even though a coach is screaming in your ear.
No doubt officiating takes a good knowledge of the rules and a good sense of judgement and what really is and is not affecting the play.

It may be easier to simply throw a flag every time we see something but it certainly takes the game away from the kids.

[ppaltice]

I know we have veered off the original topic a bit, but I want to say I agree with Phansen here. Sometimes we get too caught up in some unwritten guidelines like not calling holds away from the play, that we declare them a rule instead of a guideline.

I definitely think that the first time you see someone using an illegal blocking technique (holding) that isn't a safety issue and is away from the play, it is in everyone's best interest to warn the player involved. But don't let him continue to use this technique. If he ignores your warning, penalize him.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

I definitely think that the first time you see someone using an illegal blocking technique (holding) that isn't a safety issue and is away from the play, it is in everyone's best interest to warn the player involved. But don't let him continue to use this technique. If he ignores your warning, penalize him.

If he continues to use the technique, it WILL be a foul when they run the ball toward him. That should be the substance of the warning.

I would not flag him only because he's still doing it after I warned him. It's still a game interrupter to flag it when it doesn't affect the play.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If he continues to use the technique, it WILL be a foul when they run the ball toward him. That should be the substance of the warning.

I would not flag him only because he's still doing it after I warned him. It's still a game interrupter to flag it when it doesn't affect the play.

Most of the time that might work, but be careful someone doesn't keep doing something he shouldnn't be doing to the point the person he's doing it to feels the only way he can stop it is to take matters into his own hands. That can blow up in your face.

Even "advantage/disadvantage" has limits and bad behavior, although it has no material effect on the game, can't be tolerated or excused endlessly, or it can escalate into something a lot worse.

[falsecut]

[QUOTE=phansen;627799]If your reasoning for not calling holding away from the play is that "he couldn't make the play anyway" then why does the blocker have to hold? The defender can't make the play, right?[QUOTE]
If there is holding by the right tackle and the runner is already going down in the left flat, does anybody call that? If you're not going to use your judgement, you are in for a long game.