Batting the ball BEFORE the snap

[bigjohn]

The snap is a loose ball play but is it a pass in FLIGHT?


ART. 2 . . . No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in
flight,

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

The snap is a loose ball play but is it a pass in FLIGHT?


ART. 2 . . . No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in
flight,

A snap is a backward pass if it isn't a handing. A snap to a QB in shotgun is a backward pass, a snap to a QB directly under the center is handing (2-19-1).

[NorCalRef12]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

The snap is a loose ball play but is it a pass in FLIGHT?


ART. 2 . . . No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in
flight,

Should we start calling illegal batting every time a B player tries to bat a ball out of the runners arm during a tackle?

[bigjohn]

that is my point, it is not illegal batting unless the ball is in flight, so that can't be called and if it is being done just to stall it could fall under.


or just 3-6-2f

f. Any other conduct which unduly prolongs the game.

[Mike L]

How about just letting it fall under the rule that applies? It's either encroachment or an illegal snap. Plain and simple.
And if jerky boy decides he has to keep on doing it, well it's probably time he enjoys a stay on the bench.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

that is my point, it is not illegal batting unless the ball is in flight, so that can't be called and if it is being done just to stall it could fall under.


or just 3-6-2f

f. Any other conduct which unduly prolongs the game.

Why would you try and fit some "similar" circumstance to replace what is a direct remedy to the situation described by NF: 7-1-5 &/or 6 (Encroachment)?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Why would you try and fit some "similar" circumstance to replace what is a direct remedy to the situation described by NF: 7-1-5 &/or 6 (Encroachment)?

Because in this case, no good can come out of playing out the final 30 secs. and enforcing this penalty as if they were still playing football.

[NorCalRef12]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

that is my point, it is not illegal batting unless the ball is in flight, so that can't be called and if it is being done just to stall it could fall under.


or just 3-6-2f

f. Any other conduct which unduly prolongs the game.

Sorry John, I thought you were saying it could be illegal batting.

And for the record while this could "technically" be done within the rules, I think officials should ere on the side of calling this encroachment more often than not.

[HLin NC]

bats the ball from the snapper before he can snap it.

You've got encroachment and a warning not to pull that stunt again.

[MRH]

Our state rep. contacted the NFHS regarding this scenario a few years back. The ruling was (I don't have my manuals with me for reference) that the snap begins when the center begins movement of the ball and ends when he releases it. It is encroachment for any player to be in the NZ "prior" to the snap.

We were told if any defensive player slaps the ball away while it is being snapped an encroachment penalty is to be called on B.

[bigjohn]

You guys missed what the original poster was getting at.

Nose Guard comes up when everyone goes down and bats the ball from the snapper before he can snap it.

This is clearly a DOG and can be USC if the officials feel it is being done to incite ill will.

[wisref2]

I'd go with delay of game (he purposely commited a foul to prevent the ball from being put in play). Then I'd rule abuse of the timing rule, and start the clock on the ready. Then nicely warn him that I can understand why he did it, but it's an unsporting act and to not do it again.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by wisref2

I'd go with delay of game (he purposely commited a foul to prevent the ball from being put in play). Then I'd rule abuse of the timing rule, and start the clock on the ready. Then nicely warn him that I can understand why he did it, but it's an unsporting act and to not do it again.

The prohibition for encroachment begins with the "Ready for Play", so even as you describe it, the appropriate foul is encroachment. If you feel like it DOG would produce the same results, and unless there was something else going on USC would be excessive and inappropriate.

[kdf5]

Interestingly enough, Redding won't allow for the possibility of B swatting the snap. It either has to be encroachment or a snap infraction, saying A must have double clutched in order that B has the reflexes to swat the snap.

[Robert Goodman]

I say you slowly go & retrieve the ball and "accidentally" let those 30 sec. run off your watch, which is now official time.