Experienced Backjudges?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The term Wide Receiver means they are wide on the formation. This is a pretty "vanilla" or common term. I have never heard this suggested as a "fan" term.

At the snap there are only 3 defined positions for players to line up in and they are snapper, lineman, and back. Those are the only ones that matter when it comes to the rules.

You seem to be mixing up actual football definitions with words used by fans. Earlier you said a WR cannot be a lineman. I'm sure that is what John Madden would say but if the WR's shoulders are parallel to the goal line and he's breaking the snapper's waist then he is a lineman.

The point about the roster thing is that you cannot make these statements and say that ____ (undefined roster position) cannot do ________ . Sure it may be true a lot of the time but these absolutes cause problems without actually learning the real rule. You can't say that a defensive safety can't be blocked below the waist on a blitz. He may walk up and be on the line and in the FBZ at the snap. You can't say that the interior linemen for A can block below the waist. Some teams run weird formations where the snapper is 10+ yards away from the other linemen.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by LDUB

At the snap there are only 3 defined positions for players to line up in and they are snapper, lineman, and back. Those are the only ones that matter when it comes to the rules.

You seem to be mixing up actual football definitions with words used by fans. Earlier you said a WR cannot be a lineman. I'm sure that is what John Madden would say but if the WR's shoulders are parallel to the goal line and he's breaking the snapper's waist then he is a lineman.

The point about the roster thing is that you cannot make these statements and say that ____ (undefined roster position) cannot do ________ . Sure it may be true a lot of the time but these absolutes cause problems without actually learning the real rule. You can't say that a defensive safety can't be blocked below the waist on a blitz. He may walk up and be on the line and in the FBZ at the snap. You can't say that the interior linemen for A can block below the waist. Some teams run weird formations where the snapper is 10+ yards away from the other linemen.

OK man whatever. The term "Crack back block" has a very specific definition at the NFL level. I was conveying the NFL wide receiver coming back to the where the ball was snapped and blocking below the waist. If you have a problem with the explanation, you will just have to have a problem with it. Life will go on.

Peace

[Reffing Rev.]

I confess when I made that statement a month ago I slipped into coach language as in what coaches always yell..."Thats a crack back block..." I admit I should have said watch the player you are keying on (widest receiver on strong side by the NFHS book) especially if he is blocking back towards the ball to see if he blocks below the waist or in the back. And as you watch blocking ahead of a runner to the weak side be mindful of ends and backs outside the tackle blocking down for the same thing.

Sure I used a coach word mea culpa mea culpa. But as officials if we can't understand an occassional coach word then we need to hang up the whistle because we have to be in tune with the game as it is being taught and played today. We may have to sometimes translate "coach-speak" into code language but we do have to be fluent in it.

Oh and to the guy who said there are only three defined positions for A at the snap as far as the rules are concerned...you are mistaken there are 4. snapper...lineman...backs, and I would argue ends have enough rules specifics to list them here...ends can remove a hand from on or near the ground, ends are elligible recievers, etc.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Oh and to the guy who said there are only three defined positions for A at the snap as far as the rules are concerned...you are mistaken there are 4. snapper...lineman...backs, and I would argue ends have enough rules specifics to list them here...ends can remove a hand from on or near the ground, ends are elligible recievers, etc.

No, end is not a player designation. NF 2-32, NCAA 2-27. Rather than saying "An end is eligible to catch a forward pass" the rules use phrases like "A player positioned on the end of his scrimmage line..."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I confess when I made that statement a month ago I slipped into coach language as in what coaches always yell..."Thats a crack back block..." I admit I should have said watch the player you are keying on (widest receiver on strong side by the NFHS book) especially if he is blocking back towards the ball to see if he blocks below the waist or in the back. And as you watch blocking ahead of a runner to the weak side be mindful of ends and backs outside the tackle blocking down for the same thing.

Sure I used a coach word mea culpa mea culpa. But as officials if we can't understand an occassional coach word then we need to hang up the whistle because we have to be in tune with the game as it is being taught and played today. We may have to sometimes translate "coach-speak" into code language but we do have to be fluent in it.

Oh and to the guy who said there are only three defined positions for A at the snap as far as the rules are concerned...you are mistaken there are 4. snapper...lineman...backs, and I would argue ends have enough rules specifics to list them here...ends can remove a hand from on or near the ground, ends are elligible recievers, etc.

Referring to a position is not "coach's speak." I guess as a basketball official I should never say "point guard" even though there is no such reference in a rulebook (at least I have ever found).

Peace