Touchdown Signals

[Admiral]

I suppose I should have been more descriptive with my question. It isn't about mirroring, although it is a good discussion. Last season, I had a goal line play. Team A runs up the gut into a pile. U had the ball in, I thought it was in, but was looking at the blocking - not the ball position. BJ was on end line, and couldn't see the action. I checked both wings - HL was crashing in with a spot, LJ straddling the goal line. HL did not have a clear view of the ball once the runner hit the line, but saw his knee touch. LJ had his view completely obstructed. U relayed he had the ball in before the knee touched, but neither wing would signal. In a situation like this, is it acceptable for U to signal? It turns out that A fumbled into the end zone on the next play and B recovered.

[Mike L]

The U should be relaying to the HL he had the ball in before the knee touch. The HL, realizing he did have the knee down but had no idea where the ball was when it happened, should accept the U's call, go up with TD and thank the U for being there for him to help with the call. (Unless of course the HL feels where the knee down happened makes it impossible for the ball to be in since you really don't say at what yd line he had the knee).
The U going up with the signal just looks like cr@p.
The LJ should not be straddling the goal line unless he has it in.

[jjrye22]

Originally Posted by Mike L

The LJ should not be straddling the goal line unless he has it in.

Where should the LJ be on a short play close to the goal line if not at the pylon straddling the GL?
Our local mechanics has both LM and LJ have responsibility for the GL if the ball is inside the 10, and release directly to the GL if the ball is snapped inside the 5.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

Where should the LJ be on a short play close to the goal line if not at the pylon straddling the GL?
Our local mechanics has both LM and LJ have responsibility for the GL if the ball is inside the 10, and release directly to the GL if the ball is snapped inside the 5.

From the 5 and in (or from wherever your assoc wants it), the LJ should move to the goal line at the snap. Once the play is dead, staying on the goal line as he comes in gives the impression he has the ball in. If coming in with no idea where the ball is, he should be slightly in the field. He can then rule down before in with no complaints or can simply step into the "straddle" spot and signal TD. It's a perception thing. Watch any of the upper level guys and you'll see they never come in on the goal line unless it's to signal TD. The OP'er said his LJ was straddling the line after the play with no idea where the ball was. He shouldn't be there.

[SNG10]

Originally Posted by Mike L

From the 5 and in (or from wherever your assoc wants it), the LJ should move to the goal line at the snap. Once the play is dead, staying on the goal line as he comes in gives the impression he has the ball in. If coming in with no idea where the ball is, he should be slightly in the field. He can then rule down before in with no complaints or can simply step into the "straddle" spot and signal TD. It's a perception thing. Watch any of the upper level guys and you'll see they never come in on the goal line unless it's to signal TD. The OP'er said his LJ was straddling the line after the play with no idea where the ball was. He shouldn't be there.

Thanks for that tip, Mike.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

Where should the LJ be on a short play close to the goal line if not at the pylon straddling the GL?
Our local mechanics has both LM and LJ have responsibility for the GL if the ball is inside the 10, and release directly to the GL if the ball is snapped inside the 5.

That is our mechanic, too. They should be about 3 yds back from the pylon if the ball is coming their way. The main thing is get to the goal line. You can always work your way back but the goal line is the most important line on the field and someone must be there whenever it is threatened and this includes reverse GL plays because the R won't have the angle on possible safeties.

Some crews will have the wings take the GL when the ball is snapped inside the 15, but that may also change depending on the game situation, too.

[jjrye22]

I see know what Mike was saying from his clarification, and I agree - just didn't understand him in the original post.

A very good point Mike.

[Jim D.]

Originally Posted by Forksref

That is our mechanic, too. They should be about 3 yds back from the pylon if the ball is coming their way. The main thing is get to the goal line. You can always work your way back but the goal line is the most important line on the field and someone must be there whenever it is threatened and this includes reverse GL plays because the R won't have the angle on possible safeties.

Some crews will have the wings take the GL when the ball is snapped inside the 15, but that may also change depending on the game situation, too.

Another tip is to move the goal line sign (the orange pyramid marker) back farther away as you check the field before the game. They often put them too close to the pylon and you can trip over them as you're trying to get a good postion for a play at the pylon. Make sure you have plenty of room to work - you're not going to look too sharp if, as you're backing into position you tumble over one of those and end up making the call while seated.

[Forksref]

Jim makes a good point in moving off the GL to sell your short call. I just added that point to our wing breakout session in our clinic this August.

As for making a call on your butt, it reminds of when I was doing a game as WH on a wet field. There was an interception and I had to get to the GL. On my last stride to the GL my foot slipped and I ended up making the TD signal from my knees. All in all, I thought I had pretty good form and I was expecting the FED to add that signal as an alternative signal the next year.

[MJT]

I haven't read all the posts, but my take on the original question is this. On a running play starting inside about the 12 yard line, either wing who actually sees a player in possession of the ball cross the GL should signal. IMO, you do not mirror, you only signal if you see it.

The B can signal in these situations IMO.
1. If it is a running play from around the 13-20 and the runner is past the LOS and the B can easily get to the GL before the runner he can signal.
2. On a pass play where the ball is caught in the EZ, depending where the B is.

The U can signal in these situations.
NEVER!!!!

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by Jim D.

Another tip is to move the goal line sign (the orange pyramid marker) back farther away as you check the field before the game. They often put them too close to the pylon and you can trip over them as you're trying to get a good postion for a play at the pylon. Make sure you have plenty of room to work - you're not going to look too sharp if, as you're backing into position you tumble over one of those and end up making the call while seated.

Absolutely! I make sure the 10...10 markers are a min of 12 feet back, we don't often have the 12 ft limit lines marked on our fields here in the UK. I'll have the G markers even further back. Any stats people, photographers etc, I'll be sure to brief them to stay outside the pyramids, especially at the GL.

As for the tough GL call, I feel it is all about proper communication, particularly eye contact.
The 1st eye contact is wing to wing. A wing can have one of three things -
(1) a TD
(2) a spot short of the GL that he is selling
(3) he has nothing and so is wearing what I call the Forrest Gump expression and should be jogging in toward the pile (on the field side of the GL as mentioned earlier).

The next eye contact is Umpire to wings.
If the Umpire sees (1) or (2), he has nothing to do. If he sees both wings with a Forrest face, that triggers him into action. If he saw the ball over the line, he communicates to the wings (some favour a subtle signal, some do it verbally - whatever you favour in your association). If he has no clue if the ball was over the line, then his action is to start digging!

The final one is Referee to Umpire. If the Refereee sees the Umpire start digging in the pile, that triggers him to get close enough to the pile so that he can help unpile 'em and the Umpire can tell him the result of the play. The last thing you want is an Umpire on his knees giving a TD signal, the Referee can give that on his behalf.

[Reffing Rev.]

I've been trying to find the photo but it is lost.

2006 season, District game, home team needs a win to secure a spot in the state tourney, visiting team is 95% guaranteed at least a wild card on points. I was filling in as LJ on home team sideline with a crew I had never worked with before. Me and HL and BJ were all spot on, our U and R were from Mars I think.

Anyway Great game. Tie game - 7 to play in 4th quarter 3rd and goal inside the 5 for home team. FB dive over right guard. FB ends up 3 yards deep in the end zone. Both HL and I are crashing in with the spot...knee down ball clearly at the 1. U AND R are signalling TD.

So we put the ball 4th and goal at the 1 they kick the FG and on the insuing kickoff give up a TD return and loose the game.

This was a town not far from my work, so I was in the gas station Monday and picked up a newspaper: Front Page photo shows the FB standing in the end zone with the ball and the U and R signalling touchdown and on the very edge you can see me mid-stride at the 1 right hand in the air, left hand pointing at the ground. Caption reads something like: "Although the officials signalled touchdown they shorted 'Bob Smith' on his touchdown run, Eagles settled for FG and ended up loosing, thus being denied their state playoff bid"

I now tell my U that if he has both hands in the air, I'm cutting one of them off.

[Welpe]

No, I do not think an Umpire signaling is appropriate in this situation. A quick conference might've sorted that one out though.

[Jim D.]

Originally Posted by Admiral

I suppose I should have been more descriptive with my question. It isn't about mirroring, although it is a good discussion. Last season, I had a goal line play. Team A runs up the gut into a pile. U had the ball in, I thought it was in, but was looking at the blocking - not the ball position. BJ was on end line, and couldn't see the action. I checked both wings - HL was crashing in with a spot, LJ straddling the goal line. HL did not have a clear view of the ball once the runner hit the line, but saw his knee touch. LJ had his view completely obstructed. U relayed he had the ball in before the knee touched, but neither wing would signal. In a situation like this, is it acceptable for U to signal? It turns out that A fumbled into the end zone on the next play and B recovered.

I would say "no" because this play was the HL's call. He had the knee down. The U offered his opinion that the ball was in before the knee was down, but obviously the HL didn't agree. He has to make the call and he did - no TD, down at the 1 or wherever.

You describe it as "neither wing would signal", but that's just a backhanded way of saying the HL ruled he was down at the 1. He made a decision and it was his to make so the U should not try and overrule him.

I had this play once as an U. I swear the guy fumbled at the one, but the wing ruled TD so that's what it was. B recovered in the endzone on that play too, but the wing had the proper position so you have to trust his judgment.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Admiral

I suppose I should have been more descriptive with my question. It isn't about mirroring, although it is a good discussion. Last season, I had a goal line play. Team A runs up the gut into a pile. U had the ball in, I thought it was in, but was looking at the blocking - not the ball position. BJ was on end line, and couldn't see the action. I checked both wings - HL was crashing in with a spot, LJ straddling the goal line. HL did not have a clear view of the ball once the runner hit the line, but saw his knee touch. LJ had his view completely obstructed. U relayed he had the ball in before the knee touched, but neither wing would signal. In a situation like this, is it acceptable for U to signal? It turns out that A fumbled into the end zone on the next play and B recovered.

I'd like to see the wings and U all get to the ball and discuss what they saw. If the ball is in the end zone and nobody saw the runner down before crossing the GL it's a TD.