Is Ed Hoculi still the best?

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Remember we are talking about opinions here. And just because you think he is the best, does not make it so.

This is absolutely true. The margin between the #1 guy and the #6 guy is probably not that large. And personal preference (as to style and deportment and whatnot) does enter into it.

What's important to them is what the ratings show and what Mike Pereira wants.

And playoff assignments are very deceiving all by themselves because you have to be at a position for a certain amount of time before you can even work a single playoff game.

Why didn't you say that above?

Ed has been around longer than most. Someone could make a case that there are several officials that were better but were not eligible for playoffs.

I think the only guys on the current list of NFL white hats who are not on that list (have not received a playoff assignment in the last five years) are:

Parry, Riveron, Steratore and Cheffers.

That's it.

How many of those guys are better? Demonstrably better? Riveron and Cheffers just became referees, correct? Still too early to tell if they're better, though I think Riveron is highly-regarded. Steratore is in his third year as a referee. Parry's in his second year as a referee.

I'm not sure there are "several" officials better who are being kept out by virtue of not having enough time (Riveron and Cheffers couldn't have been in the discussion before this year anyway). So we're down to Steratore and Parry. Are they better than Hochuli? I don't know.

And remember Ed is very high profile, so we remember his games more than others.

THAT is absolutely true. Well, you seem to NOT remember his games as well as others.

(kidding, kidding, relax)

Look, Hochuli is a quality official, obviously. His body of work is an impressive one, no question. At some point, everybody's skills decline. Was the Denver thing evidence of that or just a brain fart? Only the NFL office knows for sure who's on top by their quantifiable methods. We may all have our preferences and people we admire for one reason or another.

But "the best" is a tough thing to determine. I always liked Jim Tunney, I thought he was great. But I don't know how much greater he was than Ben Dreith or Tommy Bell or Red Cashion or Jerry Markbreit. They were all pretty damn good.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Remember we are talking about opinions here. And just because you think he is the best, does not make it so.

I personally do not have a dog in this fight, but I think there are a lot of good referees. And playoff assignments are very deceiving all by themselves because you have to be at a position for a certain amount of time before you can even work a single playoff game. Ed has been around longer than most. Someone could make a case that there are several officials that were better but were not eligible for playoffs. And remember Ed is very high profile, so we remember his games more than others.

Peace

There is evidence that the NFL disagrees with you.

Ed is known to have on his crew many officials who go on to be WHs/CCs. In fact, Ed trained Mike Carey! Also trained Morelli, Vinovich, Riveron. Over 10 years, why does the NFL choose Hochuli to have FOUR future CC learn from? He's a hint: it isn't coincidence! In addition, every year a Hochuli crew member makes the Super Bowl. Why is that? Here's another hint: LEADERSHIP.

Again, Ed is among the best NFL officials of all time. Furthermore, he is among the top Referees of all time. Just accept it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

There is evidence that the NFL disagrees with you.

Ed is known to have on his crew many officials who go on to be WHs/CCs. In fact, Ed trained Mike Carey! Also trained Morelli, Vinovich, Riveron. Over 10 years, why does the NFL choose Hochuli to have FOUR future CC learn from? He's a hint: it isn't coincidence! In addition, every year a Hochuli crew member makes the Super Bowl. Why is that? Here's another hint: LEADERSHIP.

Again, Ed is among the best NFL officials of all time. Furthermore, he is among the top Referees of all time. Just accept it.

Disagrees with me? Disagrees with me about what?

I think you have a little too much man love for Hochuli.

BTW, the NFL does not get the Super Bowl as crews. They go there as individuals. And there has been turn over since Hocuhli was last in the Super Bowl. It is not like he or others are only beating out the same officials, year in and year out.

I am sorry, but this is not a personal issue for me. I personally think Hochuli is a good official and a good guy, but that does not make him still the best when there are many other Referees that are doing a good job. And just because he once trained Carey, does not mean Carey is not better than him. We are not talking about a bunch of stiffs working in the NFL and the top guy is not that much better than the bottom guy. If they were, they would get rid of them.

Honestly I do not know who is the best and really do not care when it is all said and done. This sound more like a fan boy discussion than something based on reality anyway. But to say it is hands down Hochuli is kind of over the top if you ask me. Should we discuss if Tony Romo is better than Carson Palmer too.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Disagrees with me? Disagrees with me about what?

I think you have a little too much man love for Hochuli.

BTW, the NFL does not get the Super Bowl as crews. They go there as individuals. And there has been turn over since Hocuhli was last in the Super Bowl. It is not like he or others are only beating out the same officials, year in and year out.

I am sorry, but this is not a personal issue for me. I personally think Hochuli is a good official and a good guy, but that does not make him still the best when there are many other Referees that are doing a good job. And just because he once trained Carey, does not mean Carey is not better than him. We are not talking about a bunch of stiffs working in the NFL and the top guy is not that much better than the bottom guy. If they were, they would get rid of them.

Honestly I do not know who is the best and really do not care when it is all said and done. This sound more like a fan boy discussion than something based on reality anyway. But to say it is hands down Hochuli is kind of over the top if you ask me. Should we discuss if Tony Romo is better than Carson Palmer too.

Peace

I tried.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: At one time, the Super Bowl required that an official have five years in the league before being considered, and required that a referee have five years at that position before being considered. Don't know if that's still true.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: At one time, the Super Bowl required that an official have five years in the league before being considered, and required that a referee have five years at that position before being considered. Don't know if that's still true.

It is still true at all positions from what I understand.

Peace

[MJT]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is still true at all positions from what I understand.

Peace

I think it may be 3 years now, but 3 or 5 it eliminates some who may be rated in the top 5, which lessons the number who could get a SB.

Since 1977 and 1078, and Jim Tunney, there has only been one official work the same position, that being Tom Sifferman who worked 3 in a row in 03, 04, and 05. List of Super Bowl officials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by MJT

I think it may be 3 years now, but 3 or 5 it eliminates some who may be rated in the top 5, which lessons the number who could get a SB.

Since 1977 and 1078, and Jim Tunney, there has only been one official work the same position, that being Tom Sifferman who worked 3 in a row in 03, 04, and 05. List of Super Bowl officials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those same years saw Brent Buchko work 3 straight Grey Cups.

[jontheref]

I think it was three years ago now that the NFL reversed itself on SB crews and sent entire crews rather than all star crews. You may recall the Giants v San Francisco game where there was a field goal that was missed and a penalty and they basically ignored a penalty. I may be wrong on the particulars from that one. I think the number one rated crew during the year still goes. But I could be wrong.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by jontheref

I think it was three years ago now that the NFL reversed itself on SB crews and sent entire crews rather than all star crews. You may recall the Giants v San Francisco game where there was a field goal that was missed and a penalty and they basically ignored a penalty. I may be wrong on the particulars from that one. I think the number one rated crew during the year still goes. But I could be wrong.

I'm positive they advance in the playoffs by position. I know two officials that worked playoff games last year and they did not work with their regular crews.

[JRutledge]

They get into the playoffs as a crew but all crew members are not eligible. You must work a position for around 5 years and not everyone on a crew has that kind of experience. So they get in as a crew, but they can be put together after that based on eligibility. The Super Bowl Crew is not always the entire crew but made up of All-Stars. You could work the Wild Card round and not work the Divisional Round and then work the Conference Championship or the Super Bowl. So it is not a pure elimination round. The intent is to assign crews, but they do not throw away all their other individual requirements.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They get into the playoffs as a crew but all crew members are not eligible. You must work a position for around 5 years and not everyone on a crew has that kind of experience. So they get in as a crew, but they can be put together after that based on eligibility. The Super Bowl Crew is not always the entire crew but made up of All-Stars. You could work the Wild Card round and not work the Divisional Round and then work the Conference Championship or the Super Bowl. So it is not a pure elimination round. The intent is to assign crews, but they do not throw away all their other individual requirements.

Peace

Could it be that all officials are rated individually and assigned to the playoffs based on that ranking and if multiple guys on the same crew make it, they get assigned together? I do know the top officials at each position (and meet eligibility requirements) are assigned to the Super Bowl regardless of what position they work. My understanding is the same process is done for each round. I can't imagine that someone who is other eligible but scored on the lower end for his position would get a playoff assignment just because his crew got the assignment.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Could it be that all officials are rated individually and assigned to the playoffs based on that ranking and if multiple guys on the same crew make it, they get assigned together? I do know the top officials at each position (and meet eligibility requirements) are assigned to the Super Bowl regardless of what position they work. My understanding is the same process is done for each round. I can't imagine that someone who is other eligible but scored on the lower end for his position would get a playoff assignment just because his crew got the assignment.

Not according to an official that is an NFL Official. Actually there are three in my area and according to them recently, they are judged by crews and then individuals. One of these officials work the Super Bowl recently and he did not work with his "normal" crew. As I said, the NFL is not going to punish everyone on the crew because their Field Judge was not eligible to work the post season. And in some cases there are multiple people on crews not eligible. Now if this is wrong it had to change recently. But if I use last year's example, then they assign by crews until the Super Bowl.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I'm positive they advance in the playoffs by position. I know two officials that worked playoff games last year and they did not work with their regular crews.

Did they work with a crew that had ~ 5 or 6 of their usual crewmates. This would be evidence that your friends filled in for a position where the crew that made it to that game has a newbie in that position.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Did they work with a crew that had ~ 5 or 6 of their usual crewmates. This would be evidence that your friends filled in for a position where the crew that made it to that game has a newbie in that position.

I don't believe so. The one worked the Super Bowl and I know that was individual. The other worked a wild card game and I know he didn't work with his crew and based on his comments, I don't think he was filling in on someone else's crew that had 5 or 6 of their normal guys. It wasn't a focus of our discussion though so you could be correct.