Where to enforce?

[insatty]

All action from the snap until a pass is complete or incomplete is considered a loose-ball play. (10-3-1-b-Note) The basic spot for loose-ball plays is the previous spot. (10-4-2-b) Thus, this defensive-holding call is enforced ten yards from the previous spot. NCAA is the same result because the pass didn't cross the neutral zone. Had the pass crossed the neutral zone, then 10 yards from previous spot and automatic first down in NCAA. (9-3-4-b)

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by insatty

All action from the snap until a pass is complete or incomplete is considered a loose-ball play. (10-3-1-b-Note) The basic spot for loose-ball plays is the previous spot. (10-4-2-b) Thus, this defensive-holding call is enforced ten yards from the previous spot. NCAA is the same result because the pass didn't cross the neutral zone. Had the pass crossed the neutral zone, then 10 yards from previous spot and automatic first down in NCAA. (9-3-4-b)

I agree with what you said but if you are talking about the original play, there was no pass.

[insatty]

Kdf5: Whether there was a pass or not, it was still a pass play (NCAA)/loose-ball play (NFHS). Consider this play: QB drops back to pass and primary receiver is pulled down by defender; QB is sacked. Enforce DH from previous spot because this was a pass play/loose-ball play.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by insatty

Kdf5: Whether there was a pass or not, it was still a pass play (NCAA)/loose-ball play (NFHS). Consider this play: QB drops back to pass and primary receiver is pulled down by defender; QB is sacked. Enforce DH from previous spot because this was a pass play/loose-ball play.

Seriously? They read the intent of the play? I'm sure it can be a loose ball play only if the ball is loose during some interval. And last I saw in NCAA, it's a pass play only if a forward pass is thrown; probably has to be a legal one too, I forgot.

Robert

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by insatty

Kdf5: Whether there was a pass or not, it was still a pass play (NCAA)/loose-ball play (NFHS). Consider this play: QB drops back to pass and primary receiver is pulled down by defender; QB is sacked. Enforce DH from previous spot because this was a pass play/loose-ball play.

Here is the definition of a loose ball play (NF):

10-3-1.... A loose-ball play is action during:
a. A free kick or scrimmage kick, other than those defined in 2-33-1a.
b. A legal forward pass.
c. A backward pass (including the snap), illegal kick or fumble made by A
from in or behind the neutral zone and prior to a change of team possession.
NOTE: The run(s) which precedes such legal or illegal kick, legal forward pass, backward pass or fumble is (are) considered part of the action during a loose-ball play.

It doesn't say it's a loose ball play simply because the QB called a passing play in the huddle, the pass actually has to happen for you to classify it as a LBP. If the passer gets off a pass then when the smoke clears, everything between the snap and the subsequent catch or the ball hitting the ground or getting intercepted is part of a loose ball play.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by insatty

Kdf5: Whether there was a pass or not, it was still a pass play (NCAA)/loose-ball play (NFHS). Consider this play: QB drops back to pass and primary receiver is pulled down by defender; QB is sacked. Enforce DH from previous spot because this was a pass play/loose-ball play.

That is incorrect, and as kdf5 has stated, it comes down to understanding definitions.

[insatty]

Kdf5 and MJT: Fair enough, guys. But then how do you explain that the DH penalty in the hypothetical posed is enforced from the previous spot and not the end of the run?

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by insatty

Kdf5 and MJT: Fair enough, guys. But then how do you explain that the DH penalty in the hypothetical posed is enforced from the previous spot and not the end of the run?

insatty: I'm not sure which play you are referring to but both your play and Mike51's play are running plays, with fouls committed by the defense. These fouls by the defense are enforced from the basic spot, in this case, the end of the run. The only way you could enforce your or his play from the previous spot would be if A fumbles behind the NZ, as in 10-3-1c or if the pass is actually made as in 10-3-1b. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding your question.