How do I enforce all this cr**?

[Whowefoolin]

Need some help. LL Seniors game last night. One coach is griping about the other teams F3 holding on the baserunner with his one foot out of field of play.

The other coach then gripes about the base coach being out of the coaches box. So I go to both sides and tell them that all their kids have to be inside the lines and all coaches in the coaches box.

My questions:

1. Can F3 be out of the field to hold a runner on? And what exactly is "out"? The whole body? One foot?

2. Once you give the warning to the coaches/players about something like this, do you automatically toss them from the game or just have them replaced?

3. If you see jewelry or illegal shoes/bats (for LL) do you remove only the equipment or the player also?

Thanx for the help

Max

[jicecone]

1. I believe Section 4.0 states that when the ball is put in play all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory. Penalty - Balk Let the player and coach know from the beginng.
2. If you have to give more than 1 warning and a coach or player is not ejected after that than your gonna have a long nite ahead. Bounce them once and you will establish credibilty from then on.
3. Look for these things when you walk on the field and make your warnings then. Do a little preventive umpiring and the games will go smoother

[llblue]

1. By rule, no. By practice, it does happen but it should not. Out is anything not in the confines of the line.

2. Let it go, you have bigger things to worry about than where the base coachers are standing. Order the repeat offenders to the bench if you feel that way. Unless they're trying to show you up, there's no reason to lose anyone here.

3. Just the equipment unless it's jewelery. Issue a team warning and then remove the next offender. Illegal equipment is removed from the game and turned over to the team that owns it, if it finds it's way back in the game, remove the manager.

Alex
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/llumpires

[Tim C]

. . . with LL baseball. This is what is WRONG.

We need to teach important things.

Specifically:

1) Tradition has allowed F3 to stand with a foot in foul ground. I have always told the complainer . . . "get a life" this is baseball. That is really how I have handled this issue.

2) Hooray for Illblue. There are many more important things on the field than this stuff. As I gained experience I finally just told the IDIOT coaches, "this is baseball . . . I'll tell ya what's important!" That actually worked.

3) Now that AWFUL jewelery question. Once you ask at the pre-game, "everyone legally attired?" and the coaches ALWAYS say, "Yes!" . . . Wait till the FIRST guy comes up waring his favorite jewelery . . . stop the game . . . have him hand it to you . . . take it to the bench and tell the coach (quietly), "this is ti . . . next guy is gone . . . run your club or I WILL." That is a neat double entendree.

Works for me . . . but I don't work small diamond.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by Whowefoolin
Need some help. LL Seniors game last night. One coach is griping about the other teams F3 holding on the baserunner with his one foot out of field of play.

The other coach then gripes about the base coach being out of the coaches box. So I go to both sides and tell them that all their kids have to be inside the lines and all coaches in the coaches box.

My questions:

1. Can F3 be out of the field to hold a runner on? And what exactly is "out"? The whole body? One foot?

Technically, the whole body needs to be in fair territory. Not even a foot is allowed to be in foul ground. I have a personal disgust for managers or coaches who want to nitpick this issue.

There's nothing wrong with the way you handled it. I try to impart the seriousness of the allegation at the time the coach makes it. I'll say something like, "Coach, if I enforce that, I'll have to enforce it strictly for both teams. That means any play which happens when someone has even a toe in foul ground will be nullified. Repeat offenders will be ejected. Are you sure you want me to enforce that?"

I say it so only he hears it, but I say it so he understands. Most often, they just walk away and forget about it.

In my area, it is traditional to allow the first baseman to have one foot in foul territory. It is allowed even at the varsity level. We tell the coaches that, and it seems to work. If they press it to protest, we'll just "strictly" enforce it for both teams.

2. Once you give the warning to the coaches/players about something like this, do you automatically toss them from the game or just have them replaced?

Make it clear what the penalty will be. For the coach's box infractions, the penalty is ejection. For the foul territory thing, the penalty is that play is nullified. A player who is willfully and persistently in violation of this rule should be ejected.

3. If you see jewelry or illegal shoes/bats (for LL) do you remove only the equipment or the player also?

You remove the equipment.

If jewelry is found, issue a warning to the manager. If another player is found with jewelry, eject the manager. It's the same with illegal equipment - - if you find metal spikes, warn the manager, and then eject the manager for repeat offenses. Also with illegal bats and cracked helmets, etc. remove them, warn the manager, then eject the manager for repeat offenses.

Thanx for the help

Max

You're quite welcome.

[Edited by Jim Porter on Apr 18th, 2001 at 11:30 PM]

[GarthB]

jicecone writes: 1. I believe Section 4.0 states that when the ball is put in play all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory. Penalty - Balk Let the player and coach know from the beginng.


Will this myth never die?

The penalty "Balk" listed in 4.03 applies to 4.03(a) ONLY.

"The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He may leave his position at any time to catch a ptich or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher's box until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand."

PENALTY: Balk

With F3, it's a "don't do that" and usually only after the opposing coach has complained.

I've been known to tell the complaining coach, "I've got it taken care of, Skip." I haven't lied, I tend to take care of that one by ignoring it.

[Rich]

Since FED ball is played in 48 states, except Jim's and mine, I want to point out a FED/NCAA difference in #1.

In FED, it is LEGAL for a fielder to play with one foot in foul territory. 1-1-3

In the NCAA, it is LEGAL for a fielder to play with one foot in foul territory. 5-4

Even Jim Evans in his annotated says that it is not required that the fielder have both feet in fair ground IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES.

But NAPBL 1.15 still requires both feet in fair ground. But this is definitely, as Jim said, like the coach's box. Only enforce it is someone complains about it, and then doubly enforce it for the complaining team.

Rich

[jicecone]

I guess I read these books too much. or in this case not thourgh enough. Your exactly right the balk applied to the catcher under paragraph.a. Sorry about the bad info.

[Rich]

I received an email wondering where Jim and I live since we don't use FED baseball rules:

Jim is in Rhode Island, I'm in Massachusetts. Both of these states play OBR with some modifications for safety.

As far as I know, in BASEBALL, all other states play by FED rules.

If you don't, please chime in. I wanna hear it!

Rich

[Dan Gavin]

Rich I think Texas uses OBR also like you I'am from Mass.
Dan